Being Muslim (revert) in India:

Assalam Alaikum My Islamic Br's and Sis's

Allah guided me to Islam without Dawah from any Muslim. In fact I knew few Muslims before coming to Islam. Coming to Deen of Allah and coming to Islam in India are two different aspects.

Reading word of Allah and submitting to Him titled me Muslim and my religion as Islam. Is this all?. No. In India after being Muslim you are provided some options in form of tags that you have to put upon your head or otherwise remain Muslim in isolation or vanish from Deen of Allah. The famous tags for new Muslims in India are Barelwi,Devbandi,Tablighi or Ahle Hadith. In most cases option of tagging lies in the hands of person/persons who invited you and establish you as Muslim.

But why should I be a part of such a tagging?. After embracing Islam what else can you be except being a ''MUSLIM''?. Allah command in Quran,
Almighty Allah (SWT) says: "This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-Maa'idah 5:3).

Hence I am Muslim and only Muslim.


Allah Hafeez.

I am confused, what do you mean by tagging??

Also, a friend in Pakistan says "Allah Hafiz/Hafeez" but I have never seen it said by a Muslim in the Middle East. What does it mean??

Assalam Alaikum

I have used word tagging for sectarian labels. A particular tag symbolizes a particular sect.
Hafeez is a Persian word frequently used in Indian Sub-continent meaning protector or one who safeguards.

besmilahi rahman arahim

Asalamoe 3alikoem,
You better ask the Arabs about arabic. We don' t say that in arabic it' s not used. But it does have a meaning " Allah is the protector".
Brother my advise to you is seeking knowledge everything starts with it. Be aware of the sects and sectarians. There is only a one way to the truth the way of Allah is the way of his prophet and his companions.
These are some links guiding you insha Allah to the truth.
http://www.tawhidfirst.com/monotheism/
http://www.abovethethrone.com/arsh/
http://www.aqidah.com/creed/article...wal-for-the-aqidah-in-the-books-of-aqidah.cfm
Rasoulo lah says: know from who you get your knowledge."
May Allah guid you to his right path. Amin

only ahlehadis is right the rest are wrong (some are worse than others), so if you want to be a good mulsim you have to 'adopt' that tag.

True, that Ahle-Hadiths are following directly pure Islam as taught Muhammad (SAW). Other sects are deviants from true Islam. But there is one negative aspect of them, that is they do not recognize other sects and hence adherents of these sects as Muslims. Since my early days of being a Muslim I was attached to them. But when due to time constrains I prayed Jummah at other Masjids than of Ahle-Hadiths they declared my prayers as in vein.

sachin4islam said:

True, that Ahle-Hadiths are following directly pure Islam as taught Muhammad (SAW). Our sects are deviants from true Islam. But there is one negative aspect of them, that is they do not recognize other sects and hence adherents of these sects as Muslims. Since my early days of being a Muslim I was attached to them. But when due to time constrains I prayed Jummah at other Masjids than of Ahle-Hadiths they declared my prayers as in vein.

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that depends on whether you and the imam have the correct islaamic aqeedah or not. the other minor differences in the actions of the prayer are acceptable as long as all obligatory parts are done and nothing is added/subtracted. oh and you have to recite fatiha too! my prayers were also in vain but what is gone is gone.

arzafar said:

only ahlehadis is right the rest are wrong (some are worse than others), so if you want to be a good mulsim you have to 'adopt' that tag.

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is it so?
I thought being a MUSLIM is more than enough, do I need to be Ahlul-Hadith to be on the path of saliheen???

Did prophet or any of his companions or any Ta'abaeen or Tab'be ta'baeen divide themself?

Why we are trying to divide the Ummah when Allah(SWT) has asked to unite it and command us not to divide ourselfs. Tags,Tagging, Sects, Sectarians OMG..!!! ..DERAILING ..!!

Com'on my dear brother, we had enough of it , let us try hard to unite Ummah rather to divide, Insha-Allah you'll be rewarded for this noble deed. Don't blame or judge others to be wrong, b'cos Allah(SWT) has not given us this authority. Did HE?

LET US COME UNDER " ONE BANNER " - "MUSLIM" .

May Allah(SWT) guide us all to the path of saliheen and help us and grant us Quwwah and E'ilm, Aameen..

sachin4islam said:

Assalam Alaikum My Islamic Br's and Sis's

Allah guided me to Islam without Dawah from any Muslim. In fact I knew few Muslims before coming to Islam. Coming to Deen of Allah and coming to Islam in India are two different aspects.

Reading word of Allah and submitting to Him titled me Muslim and my religion as Islam. Is this all?. No. In India after being Muslim you are provided some options in form of tags that you have to put upon your head or otherwise remain Muslim in isolation or vanish from Deen of Allah. The famous tags for new Muslims in India are Barelwi,Devbandi,Tablighi or Ahle Hadith. In most cases option of tagging lies in the hands of person/persons who invited you and establish you as Muslim.

But why should I be a part of such a tagging?. After embracing Islam what else can you be except being a ''MUSLIM''?. Allah command in Quran,
Almighty Allah (SWT) says: "This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-Maa'idah 5:3).

Hence I am Muslim and only Muslim.


Allah Hafeez.

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my dear brother,

Com'on Brother, you're the chosen one. Don't divide yourself in sects, as you pray in all the Rakah's of Salah 5 times day, "O Lord! Guide me to the straight path, path of those whom you have favored" in Surah-Fatiha. Then my dear brother have faith in your "DU'A", Insha-Allah, Allah(SWT) will definitely guide you to the straight path.

Now Smile, as it is SUNNAH

and be light hearted and don't confused yourself in these sects and complexities.

btw you're from which state? I'm from HYDERABAD.

To mahussain3 Assalam Alaikum:

I am from Indore,Madhya Pradesh. My birth place is Nizamabad close to Hyderabad. Family of my maternal uncle resides in Hyderabad.

Regards.

mahussain3 said:

is it so?
I thought being a MUSLIM is more than enough, do I need to be Ahlul-Hadith to be on the path of saliheen???

Did prophet or any of his companions or any Ta'abaeen or Tab'be ta'baeen divide themself?

Why we are trying to divide the Ummah when Allah(SWT) has asked to unite it and command us not to divide ourselfs. Tags,Tagging, Sects, Sectarians OMG..!!! ..DERAILING ..!!

Com'on my dear brother, we had enough of it , let us try hard to unite Ummah rather to divide, Insha-Allah you'll be rewarded for this noble deed. Don't blame or judge others to be wrong, b'cos Allah(SWT) has not given us this authority. Did HE?

LET US COME UNDER " ONE BANNER " - "MUSLIM" .

May Allah(SWT) guide us all to the path of saliheen and help us and grant us Quwwah and E'ilm, Aameen..

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Exactly.

There's no purpose in all these different sects and they're just making things more difficult for themselves as well as corrupting a pure deen. Plus, this is why there will be 73 (?) different sects of Muslims on the Day of Judgment. Trivial little details will continue to separate us to the point where we form our own sects.

Absolutely pathetic. Stick to Quran and Sunnah and you're good. That is after all the only group that will NOT be thrown in the Fire. No need to label yourself as this or that.

Trust me. It'll make your life alot easier.

sachin4islam said:

True, that Ahle-Hadiths are following directly pure Islam as taught Muhammad (SAW). Other sects are deviants from true Islam. But there is one negative aspect of them, that is they do not recognize other sects and hence adherents of these sects as Muslims. Since my early days of being a Muslim I was attached to them. But when due to time constrains I prayed Jummah at other Masjids than of Ahle-Hadiths they declared my prayers as in vein.

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:salam2:

Brother, you should have asked the brothers what leads them to say your prayers are in vain ?

If they bring to you proof from the Ulema that the people where you prayed your prayer (or Jumuah) belonged to a group that is declared as 'mushrik', then what they have mentioned is accurate.

Polytheism exists in the Indian subcontinent under the banner of Islam. It is quite unfortunate that there are muslims who :

- Worship graves of pious saints Astagfirullah
- have prophets after Muhammad SAW Astagfirullah
- believe in kufriyah aqeedah such as Wahdatul Wujood Astagfirullah
- believe that Prophet SAW is from the light of Allah azz zawajal La Hawla Wa Laa Quwata Illah Billah

Among other things that are common in Indian subcontinent.

Such sort of Kufr can lead for a muslim to leave the folds of Islam. Prayer of such a person is not accepted. Therefore even prayer behind them becomes void.

Ofcourse layman such as you or me shouldn't be deciding who has exited the fold of Islam or not. Therefore, you should seek the rulings of the trustworthy scholars in your region.

If you have a firm understanding of 'Tawheed' and are conversant with deviations in Aqeedah of various sects or groups, then it will become easier for you.

Since you didn't mention the circumstance that lead to the incident, it is hard to say if the brothers were speaking from knowledge gained from scholars about deviation or were being extreme (ie give verdicts by desire or whim )

No tagging.We are muslims only and follow what ALLAH and his prophet (pbuh) said.

mahussain3 said:

is it so?
I thought being a MUSLIM is more than enough, do I need to be Ahlul-Hadith to be on the path of saliheen???

Did prophet or any of his companions or any Ta'abaeen or Tab'be ta'baeen divide themself?

Why we are trying to divide the Ummah when Allah(SWT) has asked to unite it and command us not to divide ourselfs. Tags,Tagging, Sects, Sectarians OMG..!!! ..DERAILING ..!!

Com'on my dear brother, we had enough of it , let us try hard to unite Ummah rather to divide, Insha-Allah you'll be rewarded for this noble deed. Don't blame or judge others to be wrong, b'cos Allah(SWT) has not given us this authority. Did HE?

LET US COME UNDER " ONE BANNER " - "MUSLIM" .

May Allah(SWT) guide us all to the path of saliheen and help us and grant us Quwwah and E'ilm, Aameen..

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Assalamu alaykum brother,

I don’t know how my writing will be percepted. But I am ‘quoting’ this and hopefully get myself to what I want, inshaAllaah.

Akhi, its not tagging or tag as that simple, actually that is the belief on which the person is living. Lets consider an example in regard, we see barelvis do not come to masjid of sunnis or do the same practices as sunnis,why ? do they not consider them as muslims ? Similarly in their fair at nizamuddin they visit there to seek the blessings from deads and do other derogatory things.. why sunnis don’t go there ? The answer is - they don’t go where shirk and kufr is done openly.

However these people(barelvis) also claim themselves as from ahlus sunnah and to be on right path. Now let’s see what harm is there. Say for example if a new muslim (revert) meets them, he or she will consider there way as the right one and So.. will he/she know what’s true and what’s not ? or what is right in the light of qur’aan and sunnah ? and will they guide him/her to tawheed ?

The muslims who are knowledgeble in this area of learning do not say anyone mis-guided or deviant unless they get proof of that. So the main point is - tagging is not merely a tag but that shows how the beliefs of the people are, who adhere to it.

Before sometime If am not wrong the cousin of tony blair did reverted and she did reversion in Iran. If we could look at the threads here where the news were placed the members did asked – Is she a shia or sunni ? why they asked ? Because as we know shia beliefs do not fall in the fold of Islaam.

The divisions do not happen on its own. People do that by deviation. So what is the solution ? Then people have to gather the knowledge of what that separates the ummah and gather others on the right. if they don't know what's wrong they cannot rectify and clear it among the others who adhere to wrong beliefs,actions etc.

abu'muhammad said:

However these people(barelvis) also claim themselves as from ahlus sunnah and to be on right path. Now let’s see what harm is there. Say for example if a new muslim (revert) meets them, he or she will consider there way as the right one and So.. will he/she know what’s true and what’s not ? or what is right in the light of qur’aan and sunnah ? and will they guide him/her to tawheed ?

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My dear Brother,

I've one thing in my mind, and i.e. if Allah(SWT) has guided him to Islam, will HE not guide him to the path of saliheen? else why Allah(SWT) has to play with some one that he accepts Islam and say for example as brother ARZAFAR mentioned he goes to join some sect(not Ahlul Hadith) and then he died following the Ule'ma of that sect and learning Islam from them, but wait OMG..!! all his prayers are in vain and oh no whats dis, he is going to Jahannam, why? Did he not accept the Islam?Did Allah(SWT) has guided him to Islam? Indeed Allah(SWT) did but oh no he came to Islam but follows Deobandis thats why now he is in Jahannam, oh no..!!Had he known before, he would have been an Ahlul Hadith...Does it make any sense????Hope you get my point.

And who are those people(Barelvis) to guide him when they themselves are not guided. Indeed Allah(SWT) guides people whom he wants.

Assalam Alaikum My Islamic Br's and Sis's.

InshaAllah I will write about the context which compelled me to write about this issue. In fact after being perplexed by issue of sectarianism I went for an extensive exploration on internet for authentic Islamic resources whilst coming across TTI and hence joined this platform.

Regards.

:salam2:

Let's set some ground rules here. The main principle that is well known and accepted by almost any muslim regardless of the 'tag'.

'Joh Asl se alag hota hai, usko firqa kehtain hain.'

The one that deviates from the original (or branches out) is called the 'sect'.

Mere reiteration that we have to follow the 'pure islam' is not sectarianism. It is the truth. Is calling yourself 'Sunni'/Ahl Us Sunnah Wal Jamaa an innovation ? No, it is a means to differentiate that you are followers of Quran and Sunnah unlike the deviants be they the Shia, Ahlul Quran, Qadiyanis and the rest of the lot.

As brother abu muhammad rightly mentioned, in the modern times every one claims to be Ahle sunnet or Ahlus Sunnah. SubhanAllah, even the grave worshipper claims to be on the Sunnah !!.. La Hawla Wa La Quwatta Illa Billah.

The threads about Dawat Us Salifiyyah and the need to follow are in plenty and provide valuable information. So I won't get in to it, rather than link some here :-

What is Salafiyyah ?

An Introduction to Salafi Dawah

A brief quote by brother Al Kashmiri that summarizes it aptly. Link

"One who follows/ascribes to the way of the Salaf us-Saalih (pious predecessors). Just like the term sunnee refers to one who ascribes to the Prophetic sunnah, salafee is an ascription to the salaf (who are in general, the people of the sunnah and in specific, the generation of the companions and the two following generations). Many of the past `ullemaa' used it as an synonym for sunnee, since the two words refer to one and the same thing. "

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Just think of entering into a new city and every masjid being called a 'muslim' masjid and every shaykh a 'muslim' scholar, with absolutely no idea of their aqeedah or manhaj apart from that they are self claimed 'muslim'.

You might be praying behind a person who curses Sahaba in his Sujood or taking fatwa from a scholar who believes it's okay to give precedence to his fiqh or Imam over the Saheeh Hadeeth of the Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam. Why ? Because you don't know his 'tag' or what he ascribes to, what beliefs he holds and what methodology he studies and propagates.

Brothers and Sister, it goes without saying that we would all love to live in the time of the Sahaba , Tabieen and Taba Tabieen (May Allah be pleased with all of them Ameen) and have been gaining from the pristine and unaltered form of Islam and be just 'muslims' and nothing else.

But the ground realities are different. There are more deviants under the banner of Islam than you or I can even imagine or keep track of. Hence what you call as 'tagging' is what is prevalent, like it or not.

Lastly, any ascription to the salaf or the Sunnah should not be used as a means to show off or ridicule others and go in to extremes to hunt for mistakes or put down others. Some people unfortunately do it, but there are bad apples everywhere.

Sectarianism is condemned by scholars of Ahl Us Sunnah and Dawat us Salifiyyah. There have been threads on this topic which people will InshaAllah benefit from.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70446

Every muslim is prone to falling in to 'extremism' unless he watches his thoughts and actions, regardless of whether he is 'tagged' or just a 'Muslim'.

Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi

sachin4islam said:

Assalam Alaikum My Islamic Br's and Sis's.

InshaAllah I will write about the context which compelled me to write about this issue. In fact after being perplexed by issue of sectarianism I went for an extensive exploration on internet for authentic Islamic resources whilst coming across TTI and hence joined this platform.

Regards.

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Wa alaikum salaam brother
Please do continue to write and share with us your experiences, I really appreciate hearing from your perspective and your way to/in Islam.

You may gain benefit from reading some of the articles that are posted in the "Ummah In Conflict" or "Deviated Sects & Callers" section in the Islamic Articles & Important Info area of the website. I particularly like this article: http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7745


“One day Prophet Muhammad, drew a line in the sand for them and said, “This is God’s path.” He then drew several lines [branching off] to the right and to the left and said, “These are the paths [of misguidance] on each of which is a devil inviting people to follow it.” He then recited the verse: ‘Verily, this is my path, leading straight, so follow it. And do not follow the [other] paths for they will scatter you about from God’s path. That is His command to you in order that you may be conscious of God.’” (Ahmed)

May Allah always be our Guide on the Straight Path

brother,
its best to be muslim and avoid tags
no muslim can call others kafir as long as one professes kalima-the decision is for Allah to make and this is particularly repugnant to hear -so i avoid sects which call others misguided and offer not proof enough.
ahle hadith and barelvis are two extremes and let me add very recent dating to the time of british rule in india both secretly promoted by the british to create strife in the indian muslims which were mainly hanafis at that time.
the govt of any country has a motive in promoting a particular brand of islam and saudi is no different.

AZAM_SIDDIQUI said:

brother,

ahle hadith and barelvis are two extremes and let me add very recent dating to the time of british rule in india both secretly promoted by the british to create strife in the indian muslims which were mainly hanafis at that time.

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:salam2:

Brother, please enlighten me to what was the manhaj of the muslims who first came to the shores of India and Pakistan ?

You claim that Ahle Hadees and Barelwis were promoted by British govt. I don't know about Barelwis, but do you mind sharing your proofs (if any) for your claim about Ahel Hadees ? Since Ahle Hadees were secretly promoted (as you state), I think the proofs will be available to a select few like you and it is upon you to educate us with regards to it. So I am waiting Insha Allah to hear from you about it...

The fallacy in what you stated is that when Islam came to Indian subcontinent, Imam Abu Haneefa rahimullah had not even started gaining religious knowledge ie 93 Hijri.

So the majority Hanafees as you state before the British came, they came after the ones who brought Islam to lands of Indo-pak. So which political party/kingdom has brought Hanafism in to land of India, if I may ask and what were their motive on deviating from the original manhaj of the people in India ( ie the ones who brought Islam to Indo-pak) ? (Since you stated that there is political motive in promotion of brands of Islam by kingdoms/govts )

But most importantly, what was the manhaj of the people who brought Islam to India and Pakistan, they clearly cannot be Hanafee (due to the information shared above), so who exactly were they and what Islam were they upon ?

Looking forward to your answers InshaAllah. Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi