Can faith be foced upon?

:salam2:

In the advent of the banning of burqa and mosques in europe i was wondering whether the islamic practices should be forced upon in muslim countries. I think faith and practice should be left to the individual person. The govt should not force anyone to practice anything. I mean how can any adult be forced into salah or forced to do hijab. How can anyone be forced to have faith?

So my question is
1) is there any reward for a hijab, prayer, fast done by an adult out of fear of punishment by the authorities, parents etc instead of sincerity of faith.

2) Why do some muslim govts force the practice of islam in their lands. Isn't that proof in it self that the govt doesnt trust the people's faith? at the time of the prophet (pbuh) and the righteous caliphs were the people forced to do salah or wear hijab or to observe any other Islamic practice? Were they punished for not doing so?

True believers will practice their faith out of sincerity and piety. I dont think they need to be told by the govt or police to do salah etc. Should the govt be authoritative towards an individual's religious inclination?

:salam2:

:salam2:

Islam come to the mankind as a blessing and to release people from anykind of tyranny. With whorshipping the One and Only God men and women will become free people.

Islam is not persuading the people to follow the deen by bounding them on chains but with nothing else then a sincere believe and love to Allah, Subanallahu Teala. With other words Islam refers to the hearts.

Allah is the One who deserves most to be loved. To obey Him means to love Him. You can not force love....

With the language of the QuranThere shall be no compulsion in religion...(sura2:256)

humans are weak. they need some force to do good and detterent to avoid evil.

so Islamic govt have right to make ppl pray, give zakat, ban alcohol, force hijab, etc. its for their own good. they'll like on judgment day tht they were pressured to do good deeds

As-salaamu `alaykum

Faith is not always what is being forced upon. It is morality. Making the hijaab a legal requirement is following the book and sunnah, and it maintains morality. Every government does the same, they do not allow you to walk the streets naked (well some do!). They require that a certain degree of covering of the body be in place. In the West it's virtually nothing, in the lands of Islaam, it is virtually everything. Imagine the social harms that would be present with the absence of the hijaab. In fact, you don't need to do that, just look to the West. In properly governed Islamic lands, sex related crimes remain few. In the West they're reaching the level of social norms.

As for prayer, than the Prophet sall-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam, was severe with this issue, to the extent he mentioned the idea of burning the houses of those who did not attend the congregation, as a way of stressing its importance. Some of the jurists and leaders implemented this, by making sure every responsible and capable male attended the congregation, inflicting punishments on those who didn't.

Aside from this of course, we need true faith. So just as it is upon the government to maintain the state with the prayer and hijaab and the various other rulings, it is upon them to teach the people and maintain justice and safety. These ingredients would inshaa' Allaah, make the implementation of Islaam very easy for the people.

As for the time of the Prophet, sall-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam, then we all know that we cannot match the companions in any way, shape or form. They were from the best of mankind, so it's no surprise that all the signs of Islaam were present and being implemented in their time. Yet after the death of the Prophet, sall-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam, his companions waged war against those who for example, didn't pay the zakaah.

The prayer is more important than zakaah. It has more of a right to be forced. The problem we have today is that Muslims are neglecting knowledge and prayer, yet give money for zakaah and fast a month. Why, because this is easy for them, they are enveloped in a laziness and in worst cases, stubbornness, which takes them away from prayer and learning. Yet they rush to do the easier deeds, because they take less effort.

We need to remember that in Islaam, religion and state are not separated. Religion or Islaam rather, isn't just a private religion implemented one day a week, or in certain times of the day or year. It is a complete way of life which governs how we wash to how inheritence is divided. Hence, Islamic rulings comprise of religious and creedal laws, as well as "state" laws. That is why when you study Islamic jurisprudence, you study for instance, purification and how to pray alongside the study of business transactions, marriage and inheritance. Having said that, the laws with respect to prayer and dress are implemented as equally as punishing a criminal for murder would be implemented.

Allaah knows best.

:salam2:

The obligations are for the individual, and for authorities or rulers, each has to do them sincerely. every one is shepherd of his flock, this applies to the one in authority, and their moral duty to correct the people under them Islamically in a right way. following article will be helpful, inshaAllah.

Those (Muslim rulers) who, if We give them power in the land, (they) enjoin Iqamaat-as-Salaah [i.e. to perform the five compulsory congregational Salaah (prayers) (the males in mosques)], to pay the Zakaah and they enjoin Al-Ma‘roof (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do), and forbid Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism and all that Islam has forbidden) [i.e. they make the Qur’aan as the law of their country in all the spheres of life]. And with Allaah rests the end of (all) matters (of creatures)” [al-Hajj 22:40-41]

Enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil is a mission which will never end until the Hour begins. It is obligatory upon all the ummah, rulers and subjects, men and women, each according to his or her circumstances. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever among you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand [by taking action]; and if he cannot, then with his tongue [by speaking out]; and if he cannot, then with his heart [by feeling that it is wrong] – and that is the weakest of faith.” (Narrated by Muslim, 49)

The Muslim ummah is one nation, and if corruption becomes widespread in it and its circumstances turn bad, then all the Muslims are obliged to reform it, rid it of evil things, enjoin what is good and forbid what is bad, and offer sincere advice to all. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“Religion is sincerity.” We said, “To whom?” He said, “To Allaah and His Book, and His Messenger, and to the leaders of the Muslims and their common folk.” (Narrated by Muslim, 95).

If a Muslim is commanded to do something, he should be the quickest of people to do it, and if he is forbidden to do something, he must be the one who keeps furthest away from it. Allaah has issued a warning to those who go against that, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):
“O you who believe! Why do you say that which you do not do?
Most hateful it is with Allaah that you say that which you do not do” [al-Saff 61:2-3]

No matter how righteous a person may be, he still needs sincere advice, guidance and reminders in the light of the Qur’aan and Sunnah. Allaah said to the Messenger of the Lord of the Worlds, the most perfect of all creation (interpretation of the meaning):

“O Prophet (Muhammad)! Keep your duty to Allaah, and obey not the disbelievers and the hypocrites (i.e., do not follow their advice). Verily, Allaah is Ever All-Knower, All-Wise”
[al-Ahzaab 33:1]

So we must all enjoin that which is good and forbid that which is evil, so that we may attain the Pleasure of Allaah and His Paradise.

From Usool al-Deen al-Islami, by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ibraaheem al-Tuwayjri

some interesting replies.
but i'm still not convinced. i can understand the idea of not being public about sins. but i actually find the idea of legislating morality a bit hypocritical. im not against shariah :astag:

what im saying is that force can never get the required results.
for instance if somebody is praying in public just to avoid punishment (although he'd rather be somewhere else), isnt that hypocrisy. yes the mosque may look full and the ruler may be happy that they have done their job but sincerity and faith might be missing from the believers.

the alternative would be to make mosque attractive and far more useful!

eg. mosque can be made into a community center (libraries + halls + conference rooms + internet cafe + arrange indoor/outdoor sports + quiz, qirat competitions etc with prizes + weekly charity meals/dinner for the poor of the community).

imagine students doing their homework at the mosque. Children from two rival madarsa's preparing for the final of the Islamic quiz or badminton tournament. Cooking classes for ladies or whatever stuff they want.

The idea is to expand the role of mosques in the daily routine. more activity in the mosque = more people in the mosque = more people praying on their own free will. I hope that expanding the mosque into such facility doesn't count as bidaah. Obviously such projects would require massive funding but money is one thing that most muslim countries have.

similar things can be done to attract people towards other aspects of islam.
or maybe im just building castles in the air.

:salam2:

They should not force it upon their people, but they should deal with problems Islamically.

ayman1 said:

2:256 makes it clear that there shall be no compulsion in religion. Notice that God says "in religion", not just "upon" it. One has to conclude that no matter in religion can be forced. What the Muslim authority is obligated to do though, is protect citizens from immorality in the same way any society protects its citizens from crime. If a woman, for example, goes out in improper attire, it is the duty of the Muslim authorities to prevent her, not because they can force her to be decent but to protect others from fitna. That's the key difference that many advocates of personal freedom overlook. We cannot drive our own cars on the highway faster than the speed limit because if we do we may cause fatal harm to others, not just ourselves.

So, why did Abu-Bakr, may God have been pleased with him, fight the people who refused to pay the Zakah? Because they remained Muslim! As Muslims, they have committed to pay it. By refusing to pay, they violated the law of the land, just like in America, the Federal government may send U.S. marshals to bust the home of a citizen who refuses to pay taxes.

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:salam2:

You have explained it very well. jazak Allahu ckair.

ayman1 said:

2:256 makes it clear that there shall be no compulsion in religion. Notice that God says "in religion", not just "upon" it. One has to conclude that no matter in religion can be forced. What the Muslim authority is obligated to do though, is protect citizens from immorality in the same way any society protects its citizens from crime. If a woman, for example, goes out in improper attire, it is the duty of the Muslim authorities to prevent her, not because they can force her to be decent but to protect others from fitna. That's the key difference that many advocates of personal freedom overlook. We cannot drive our own cars on the highway faster than the speed limit because if we do we may cause fatal harm to others, not just ourselves.

So, why did Abu-Bakr, may God have been pleased with him, fight the people who refused to pay the Zakah? Because they remained Muslim! As Muslims, they have committed to pay it. By refusing to pay, they violated the law of the land, just like in America, the Federal government may send U.S. marshals to bust the home of a citizen who refuses to pay taxes.

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good answer although the example given isnt appropriate as the tribes collectively refused to pay zakat, which implies a rebellion against the state.

i want to know the practice of salaf. Did they punish individuals for not observing hijab, prayer? Or was it that the society alienated such people and thereby protected its members without the state interfering in anything. i.e. society protecting itself against immorality rather than a piece of legislation protecting them.

for eg community refusing to talk, trade or relate with somebody who didn't pray.

ayman1 said:

2:256 makes it clear that there shall be no compulsion in religion. Notice that God says "in religion", not just "upon" it. One has to conclude that no matter in religion can be forced. What the Muslim authority is obligated to do though, is protect citizens from immorality in the same way any society protects its citizens from crime. If a woman, for example, goes out in improper attire, it is the duty of the Muslim authorities to prevent her, not because they can force her to be decent but to protect others from fitna. That's the key difference that many advocates of personal freedom overlook. We cannot drive our own cars on the highway faster than the speed limit because if we do we may cause fatal harm to others, not just ourselves.

So, why did Abu-Bakr, may God have been pleased with him, fight the people who refused to pay the Zakah? Because they remained Muslim! As Muslims, they have committed to pay it. By refusing to pay, they violated the law of the land, just like in America, the Federal government may send U.S. marshals to bust the home of a citizen who refuses to pay taxes.

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First paragraph is the best answer.. This shows that u r not FREE to do wat u want OPENLY

Man arzafar, you are hitting the nail spot on.
I agree 110% with you!

People always tell me, "There is no compulsion in Islam", "Allah (swt) wills people to Islam" Which are true, so why does Saudi Arabia and Iran make any sense at all?

To be modest for the sake of Allah (swt), to pay Zakat for the sake of Allah (swt) to be MUSLIM for the sake of Allah and by the WILL of Allah (swt) goes against doing it because youre scared to get stoned to death or something....It's wrong of them to force people into that.

So USa is better than saudi arabia since its more islamic brotehr arzafar..

Wat r u saying?

Gernada1492 said:

So USa is better than saudi arabia since its more islamic brotehr arzafar..

Wat r u saying?

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Is English your first language?

alf2 said:

Is English your first language?

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Pardon, but may i ask wat it has to do with the post?

Gernada1492 said:

So USa is better than saudi arabia since its more islamic brotehr arzafar..

Wat r u saying?

Click to expand...

u know that i didnt say that.
ill leave it at that.

ayman1 said:

2:256 makes it clear that there shall be no compulsion in religion. Notice that God says "in religion", not just "upon" it. One has to conclude that no matter in religion can be forced. What the Muslim authority is obligated to do though, is protect citizens from immorality in the same way any society protects its citizens from crime. If a woman, for example, goes out in improper attire, it is the duty of the Muslim authorities to prevent her, not because they can force her to be decent but to protect others from fitna. That's the key difference that many advocates of personal freedom overlook. We cannot drive our own cars on the highway faster than the speed limit because if we do we may cause fatal harm to others, not just ourselves.

So, why did Abu-Bakr, may God have been pleased with him, fight the people who refused to pay the Zakah? Because they remained Muslim! As Muslims, they have committed to pay it. By refusing to pay, they violated the law of the land, just like in America, the Federal government may send U.S. marshals to bust the home of a citizen who refuses to pay taxes.

Click to expand...

:salam2:wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu...

Beautiful answer akhi ayman.explains it all,explains it well.

and akhi arzafar,it is from the individuals that communities are formed.one person can start it all.

Saalam alaikum

for the point of Compulsion:

Surah Bakara: ayah 256, I hope this one ayah is enough for the explanation of your question.

coming to other points:

what you do in public, if that goes against Govt. rules, you will be punished. but what you do actually that is between you and Allah. the same things, which are against rule of Govt., if you dont do that publicly, whos going to stop you.

its all about one's intension. actually Allah subhanahu wa ta'lka is aware of everyone's heart and intension. so it is to be noted, whatever we do shouyld be for the sake of Allah. to do that we need to strengthen oue Eeman. may Allah help us to protect our eeman

wassalamu alaikum wa rahmatu-llah

Assalaam walaikum,

I will not be popular after this response.

Brother Ayman your example of the feds busting homes sucks. We all know in the US the IRS is illegal.

And my question becomes: Faith can never be forced upon. It is interpersonal. It is private. It can not be quantified. It can not be held in a box. We may out of respect for our Deity follow His prescriptions. But respect and reverence are descriptors. What are we trying to measure.

:salam2:

In every society there are laws to be followed otherwise life will be spoiled : The laws of Allah sobhanahu wa taala are the best for humankind to be followed. We are suffering (all humans) for the concequences of ignoring the message of our creator.