OBAMA ELECTED AS PRESIDENT

[Mrmuslim]

salaam alikom

The elections are over and Obama is elected as 44th president of U.S

And just before people start saying negative things...

Is it permissible for Muslims to vote for kaafirs who seem to be less evil?
Some Moslems in a non Islamic country are asking if it is OK to participate in the elections there and vote for non Moslem groups or parties. They claim that it would serve the Moslem community there if a certain group won the elections?


Praise be to Allaah.

This is a matter concerning which rulings may differ according to different circumstances in different times and places. There is no absolute ruling that covers all situations, both real and hypothetical.

In some cases it is wrong to vote, such as when the matter will have no effect on the Muslims, or when the Muslims have no effect on the outcome of the vote. In this case voting or not voting is all the same. The same applies in cases where all the candidates are equally evil or where they all have the same attitude towards Muslims…

It may be the case that the interests of Islam require Muslims to vote so as to ward off the greater evil and to reduce harmful effects, such as where two candidates may be non-Muslims but one of them is less hostile towards Muslims than the other, and Muslims’ votes will have an impact on the outcome of the election. In such cases there is nothing wrong with Muslims casting their votes in favour of the less evil candidate.

In any case, this is the matter of ijtihaad based on the principle of weighing up the pros and cons, what is in the interests of Islam and what is detrimental. With regard to this matter, we have to refer to the people of knowledge who understand this principle. We should put the question to them, explaining in detail the circumstances and laws in the country where the Muslim community is living, the state of the candidates, the importance of the vote, the likely benefits, and so on.

No one should imagine that anyone who says that it is OK to vote is thereby expressing approval or support for kufr. It is done in the interests of the Muslims, not out of love for kufr and its people. The Muslims rejoiced when the Romans defeated the Persians, as did the Muslims in Abyssinia (Ethiopia) when the Negus defeated those who had challenged his authority. This is well known from history. Whoever wants to be on the safe side and abstain from voting is allowed to do so. This response applies only to elections for influential positions. And Allaah knows best.


Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid



هل يجوز تصويت المسلمين للكفار الأخف شراً ؟
بعض المسلمين الذين يعيشون في بلاد غير إسلامية يريدون معرفة جواز المشاركة في الانتخابات والتصويت لأحزاب غير إسلامية . يقولون بأن بعض الأحزاب المعينة ستخدم المسلمين هناك إذا فازوا في الانتخابات .


الجواب:
الحمد لله
هذه من مسائل الفتوى التي يختلف فيه الحكم بحسب الزمان والمكان والأحوال فلا يطلق فيها حكم عام في جميع الصور الواقعة أو المتوقعة .
ففي بعض الحالات لا يسوغ فيها التصويت كما إذا كان الأمر لا أثر له على المسلمين ، أو كان المسلمون لا أثر لهم في التصويت ، فإدلاؤهم وعدمه سواء ، وكذا لو كان الحال متشابهة ومتساوية بالنسبة للمصوّت لهم لاستوائهم في الشر أو الموقف من المسلمين ..
وقد تكون المصلحة الشرعية مقتضية للتصويت من باب تخفيف الشر وتقليل الضرر ، كما لو كان المرشحون من غير المسلمين لكن أحدهم أقل عداوة للمسلمين من الآخر ، وكان تصويت المسلمين مؤثرا في الاقتراع فلا بأس بالتصويت له في مثل هذه الحال .
وعلى كل حال فهذه من مسائل الاجتهاد المبنية على قاعدة المصالح والمفاسد ينبغي أن يرجع فيها إلى أهل العلم العارفين لضوابط هذا الأصل ، وأن يُعرض عليهم الأمر بتفاصيله في حال البلد الذي تعيش فيه الجالية المسلمة وقوانينه وحال المرشّحين وأهمية التصويت وجدواه ونحو ذلك .
وليس لأحد أن يتوهم أن من قال بالتصويت أنه مقرر للكفر مؤيد له ، وإنما ذلك لمصلحة المسلمين لا محبة للكفر وأهله ، وقد فرح المسلمون بانتصار الروم على الفرس ، كما فرح المسلمون في الحبشة بانتصار النجاشي على من نازعه الملك كما هو معروف في السيرة ومن أراد التورع فله ذلك ، وهذا الجواب في موضوع انتخاب الأشخاص في المواقع المؤثّرة . والله تعالى أعلم .

الشيخ محمد صالح المنجد

[muslimah-2k8]

It will be interesting to seee if he attacks makkah,madina or pakistan.


I am sure he won't do that... We Muslims aren't sitting ducks...

[Murra]

He sure did give a powerful speech!

I am white and today proud to be an American!

Not only can a black women look at her son and tell him :you can become president some day" but a immigrant can look at her son and say "you can be president some day" ; how great is that!

[Shahzad]

only if immigrants are allowed to enter USA :D
they arent giving visas any more. may be now, they will start giving those

[Murra]

O

It will be interesting to seee if he attacks makkah,madina or pakistan.

The Bark-Obama

This is a ignorant remark!
A president just cant attack a country with out approval . Its not just his decision.
And what makes you think all Muslims are angels from Allah?
I live in the US and have met some pretty nasty ungodly Muslims. My Muslim husband works for one; and I have met some in NYC.
Muslim does not = great person..

[Murra]

only if immigrants are allowed to enter USA :D
they arent giving visas any more. may be now, they will start giving those

My husband is a immagrant and his mother is in the process of getting a visa.

Your genralization is not flattering.

[Shahzad]

approval? wat kind of approval? dont u know wats going on iraq and afghanistan? iT WAS ALL APPROVED
Innocents are being killed there while u ppl are playing football and lawn tennis.

there are goood and bad persons every where.

[Almeftah]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Regarding what brother MrMuslim posted a fatwa about Muslims voting for non-muslims..

Since there are american muslims living in the USA, It does matter for them to vote for a non-muslim for it has a direct effect on them.

As for me i am saticfied with the result of the elections, since Obama seems to be more of a reformist than McCain is.

[Murra]

approval? wat kind of approval? dont u know wats going on iraq and afghanistan? iT WAS ALL APPROVED
Innocents are being killed there while u ppl are playing football and lawn tennis.

there are goood and bad persons every where.

Hit the nail on the head

[Shahzad]

that immigration process has been going on and on for many of us since last year

[Shahzad]

i will see wat kind of reform he brings, specially for muslims

[muslimah-2k8]

i will see wat kind of reform he brings, specially for muslims
Don't expect anything from politicians.. vote and forget...

Lets reform ourselves first...

[Murra]

that immigration process has been going on and on for many of us since last year

With the attitude in your post on this thread and some of your others maybe its best you dont get one.

[Shahzad]

u r right sister. I dont know why many muslims are supporting obama. May be becuase blacks might get some respect than ever or may be that he is a muslims himself as he has "hussain" in his name .. duh!

[Mrmuslim]

Salaam alikom

Well any response which donst make any sense will be deleted, we should think what we trying to say before we write, without offending other Muslims or Non Muslims that what our religion teach us.

First of all we should look at our self first before pointing fingers at others, our own Muslims brothers and sisters cant get along with each others, leave alone non Muslims.

As Muslim we start our talk with a greeting which Salaam Alikom, just writting 2, or 3 lines just to start an argument wont be allowed.

I think its better to look the status of our Muslim world before we talk about others I am not defending any one here but our own Muslim leaders dont care about any Muslim as a person, at least you might have some respect in western country or the law portect you against discrimination or any other un acceptable behavior.... If we really do care we should ask our self how many times we woke up in the middle of the night when Allah s.w.t answer the duaa, and prayed for our own ummah's status.???

Ask your self this question then start pointing fingers at others.

By the way any response with negative attitude will be deleted.

It doesnt matter where we are posting, we should follow islamic manner every where

here are some of the rules just as reminder for me first and for rest of the people.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10314

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37906

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10352


Wa salaam alikom

[Murra]

Salaam,






Funny. You should turn off that mainstream media. Don't you know that Bush went to war without congress approval.

I save important docs in my archives for people that need to be enlightened. Take a look:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55825



]

Not true. Your source is questionable.

If he didnt have approval then why did the Senate give 84 billion dollars?
The president cant just order a army to "go" to Iraq. It dont work that way.

eta:Please forgive me ALLAH for saying things in the heat of the moment!

[IslamIsLight]

Not true. Your source is questionable.

If he didnt have approval then why did the Senate give 84 billion dollars?
The president cant just order a army to "go" to Iraq. It dont work that way.

This board seems to be for the fundamentalist. I am not and hate those who tarnish Islam. This forum is one of them.
Good bye.

ETA: its odd how key posts go missing?

salam aleikum sister
Just don't pay attention to the rude comments and please stay ,u will find a lot of beneficial information on this site inshaAllah

your sister Aisha:hearts:

waaleikum salam

[muslimah-2k8]

:salam2:

I think its better to look the status of our Muslim world before we talk about others I am not defending any one here but our own Muslim leaders dont care about any Muslim as a person, at least you might have some respect in western country or the law portect you against discrimination or any other un acceptable behavior.... If we really do care we should ask our self how many times we woke up in the middle of the night when Allah s.w.t answer the duaa, and prayed for our own ummah's status.???

Exactly...

We go overboard criticizing the politicians and politics...
Are we atleast performing our duties as Muslims...

Let the politicians do what they want and let us as Muslims do what we should...

Now see we made Murra feel bad...
I apologize if i hurt anyone unintentionally...

Dear Murra, please visit this site again... there are a lot of helpful and good people over here...

[Mrmuslim]

salaam alikom

Even after posting what Scholars said about this issue people like to argue any way this was posted by one of the sister Amirah80 in other thread,

The Reality of al-Albaanee's Position on Voting

Shaykh Muhammad Naasiruddeen al-Albaanee

Reference: Silsilatul Hudaa wan-Noor (Series of Guidance and Light), Tape #284 starting at approx 54mins. and continuing on tape #285

Category: Contemporary Issues



Questioner: Some students of knowledge issued a verdict permitting voting for the best of the available Christian candidates based on the premise that this is from choosing the lesser of two evils. Is this permissible?

In addition, isn’t this considered to be increasing their numbers which may in turn have a negative effect on the public's opinion of Muslims?



Shaykh: I have been asked this question on more than one occasion, and I believe that it is incomplete. So if you want to complete this unfinished question by bringing further clarity [then do so]...


Questioner: What is the permissibility of voting for the best available candidate, particularly if they are Christian?

Shaykh: This question is incomplete just as it was when presented by other than you. I will now say what I think is intended by the question.

In the event that there are a number of Christian candidates who are imposed upon the Muslims, meaning that one of them has to be elected whether the Muslims like it or not, the previously mentioned principal is applied: namely, choosing the lesser of two evils. For example, there are four Christian candidates in a certain country and it is inevitable that one of them will be the winner (elected).

Hypothetically speaking, if it were only the Muslims voting [for these candidates] and no one else - not even one other person is voting - such that if the Muslims refrained from voting they wouldn't be elected, then it is not permissible to vote for them.

Is it clear up to here?

Questioner: Yes

Shaykh: However, if the situation is contrary to this, and this is what I think the question is referring to, then one of them must be selected due to the electoral process established today. It is upon you to know that this system is not Islamic in any way whatsoever...[The Shaykh then begins to explain some of the ills of democracy and the harm of giving power to someone who requests it, in contrast to the beauty of the Islamic shooraa]

Discussing these issues is lengthy. However, the point is that it has been imposed upon the Muslims living in that particular country to choose a candidate just as it is imposed upon them that some of the elected politicians be Christian. Why? Because there are Christian citizens. The government takes into account the percentage of Christian citizens in the country and makes calculations. They compare, for example, the ratio of Muslims to Christians. Do they consider the Jewish citizens in this process? I'm not sure. Based on these calculations they conclude that the country should have, for instance, two Christian politicians.

If the Muslims do not choose between them, then their own people will choose. In either case, one of them is going to be elected. But as we said earlier there may be four or five candidates. The Muslims in that country must consider it like this: The first candidate is a Baathist and a non-Muslim, the second is a communist and a non-Muslim, the third is an atheist and a non-Muslim and so on. The last is a practicing Christian who does not harbor animosity towards the Muslims. If there is no way around the fact that one or two of them are going to be elected, then what should the Muslims do? Should they say, "We are not going to get involved? They are Christians. Let them fight each other." No, this is not the case, because two of these candidates will be elected regardless.

So O Muslims, O you who have sense, is this principle to be applied in this scenario or not? I say yes, because the Muslims in this case are between two evils. Similarly, this is the case if the candidates were Muslims, since amongst the Muslims are Communists, Baathists and so on. Okay, do we just sit back and watch or should we choose the one whose harm is less???

[Shahzad]

Obama has said that he will attack on Makkah and madina , if he wins. I dont know if you have read that.

So, lets see what happens. I am eager to see the muslim ummah unnited against these offenders

[muslimah-2k8]

Obama has said that he will attack on Makkah and madina , if he wins. I dont know if you have read that.

So, lets see what happens. I am eager to see the muslim ummah unnited against these offenders

i don't think obama said that...it was Colorado Republican Tom Tancredo who said that... check the facts before you post...

[Shahzad]

i read that in local news paper. And it was obama. do u have any source for this?

[Almeftah]

No sooner had we come to terms with Obama, that we have another "solution provider" come up with a deterrent to a nuclear attack on USA. Mr. Tom Tancredo, a republican presidential candidate, bid to out do Obama by clearing a policy position that he would attack Mecca and Medina as a deterrant to a nuclear attack on USA soil.

The fact that this comes from a Republican candidate just goes to say how out of touch with the Muslim world these folks are. It is not as if the Muslim population of the world lives in these two cities. How many more militants will such an event raise? And what of investigating a nuclear attack on the USA? So since the Americans attacked Baghdad and Kabul, the Muslims of the world should attack the Pope's residence? A more absurd solution to world problems has never been made.


Quoted from: The Dosti Show (http://thedostishow.blogspot.com/2007/08/tom-trancedo-threatens-attack-on-mecca.html)

Republicans want war against the world.

[muslimah-2k8]

:salam2:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/03/obama.pakistan.ap/index.html

Obama spoke about unilateral military strikes against pakistan... Tancredo,the lunatic, went a step further...

[abu turaab]

:salam2:either Obama or McCain...who is more compatible with muslims?...we might find one more inclined towards muslims collecting some points after a whole lot of debating...yet we shouldn't forget that the politicians of anywhere in this world usualy don't fulfill the promises they make with people and USA is no exception!!..specialy when it comes to the weak minorities like muslims..both obama and McCain neglected muslims visibly..there's no consideration and respect for muslims anywhere!!.dear bro and sis...this weak and humilating position of muslims is a punishment from ALLAH because of astounding injustice and intolerance in our societies...and because of stagnance in our thoughts and lack of tenderness towards each other!!..we muslims seem more stingy,ethnic,heratbreaking and unforgiving towards each other than we are with the non-muslims!!!...and remember brothers and sisters every matter is in ALLAH's hand!!..he helps muslims through HIS obedience only..untill we don't quit these devastating attitudes and attributes,ALLAH will continue punishing us and no obama or King Abdullah or else could help us!!...May ALLAH help us to change according to HIS will!!...Aameen..ya rab-al-Aalamen!!

[justoneofmillion]

My husband is a immagrant and his mother is in the process of getting a visa.

Your genralization is not flattering.

:salam2:what do you mean by immigrant!according to the native Americans the real owners of that land, you re all immigrants .I don t see why some are more immigrants than others subhanallah i can t stand this but i guess it is a deeply rooted DNA molecule moving back to catch melancholic past times in the unconscious of some people,while writing down pleasant sounding poems with a sweet smelling note of humanism,that still insults the air we all breath in the same way.It s big time to change this perception all over the world not just in your little island over there.Black, White ,Brown or Yellow when it comes to politics they all see Green nowadays.I have no idealized leader in mind am my own,the real one has left a while ago S.A.W .Am happy to see you being happy, but i have to disagree with you on that one ,just a matter of concepts no ill thoughts at all.
wassalaam
jameel

[Shahzad]

plz dont write disgracefull posts. :)
@Justoneofmillion: that truth might be harder to gasp by any NATIVE american.
@muslimah: And Tancredo belongs to which party?

[diane_k]

AT LAST!!!! The voice of the people overthrew the cronies in Washington! Bush will be leaving office with his tail between his legs and a world that KNOWS tomorrow will be better because WE THE PEOPLE saw the light of HOPE and FAITH in a better world! I am so excited, so humbled and so pleased that even though my closest of friends were die hard McCain supporters as were my parents....that the rest of the country knew which choice had to be made and without PREJUDICE voted for OBAMA! I do believe that somehow we have saved or redeemed our persona to the world.

GOD BLESSS THE USA TODAY AND FOREVER and may he guide OBAMA to be a fair, just unifier in the country and the world!!!!!!

[Salem9022]

as-salaam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

what really gets to me is that there are muslims here who are telling us that this Kaffir Man called Obama is going change things for us Muslims????

when was the last time a kaffir changed things for the good of Muslims? or when was the last time a kaffir was working for the Muslims??

13:11 For each (person), there are angels in succession, before and behind him. They guard him by the Command of Allah. Verily! Allah will not change the good condition of a people as long as they do not change their state of goodness themselves (by committing sins and by being ungrateful and disobedient to Allah). But when Allah wills a peoples punishment, there can be no turning back of it, and they will find besides Him no protector.

Also what gets to me is that there are Muslims on this forum and in the world who believe that this Kaffir and others like him will help Bring Peace in the Middle East?

when was the last time a Kaffir helped bring peace in Middle East which is Muslim Lands? why I don't understand is that these muslims are trying to give the keys of Muslim Lands to this Kuffar on a silver platter so he can keep it and safe guard? is this Kuffar More Deserving to be given the Keys to the Muslim Lands just because he is Black? or his father was a Former Muslim? or that he Openly says he is a kaffir Cross worshipper?

They are giving Muslim Lands in the Middle East and telling this Kaffir to go and resolve it for Us Muslims as if this is ever going to happen. Unless these muslims are telling us that they want the Muslim lands in the middle east to be given to the americans and the kuffar? I dont really understand this do these muslims think that the middle east belongs to the Kuffar and Americans that they are the ones that need to resolve the issues there?

There are those as well you are saying he can help to bring solve the Palestinian and Israeli Issue and resolve the issue, how can this be done in the eyes of Muslims when this man believes Jersusalem will always be in the hands of the Zionists?
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[Al-Kashmiri]

As-salaamu `alaykum.

MrMuslim, may Allaah reward him, stressed posting well and not pointlessly. It seems that even after 10 or so posts being deleted, people still can't compose themselves. Further yet, these threads seem to follow on one another, the same points being repeated and argued.

Sorry guys but this thread is closed until further notice...

Was-salaamu `alaykum

[Mrmuslim]

salaam alikom

Jazaak Allah khair brother Al-Kashmiri on closing the thread or they would killed each other in arguing a simple and silly subject, before I write I just want to make sure that every one understand I am not defending any one here or supporting any one the thread was Only saying OBAMA is elected president.

I wish we as Muslim think before we open our mouth and stop believing anything been said in the media. Yes he is not a Muslim but he was born to a Muslim father, he is close to his grand mother who is a Muslim, he lived some of his child hood in Muslim country and one of his best friend is a Muslim.

During his campaign he personally called the 2 Muslim women who were removed from behind the podium at a rally in Detroit he called them personally and apologized to them for the behavior of his staff.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jfXRK7bSCugwY9XFaEROz6yoAnNQ

So at least he have little of understanding of Islamic Faith not like other stupid people, I have never heard in a news **which I am 100% sure will show up in Google search** that he said he will attack Makah and Madinah he was against the war in Iraq from first day!

Beside in the video he saying that these holy site is not only important for Jews but for Muslims and Christians too

Well yes he support the Jews, what you expect him to win without supporting them? But he is the least **WE hope** PAIN to Muslims.

Beside why we are talking about others and we as Muslim cant even live with each other in peace, look at to your leaders before talking about others when did Pakistan respected their own citizens ? when did any of Muslim leaders respected their citizens ?

I just wonder do we go blind when it comes to rules of the site I posted them in this thread but I am sure none bothered to re read them again before posting and writing

Just as reminder

I want to remind my self and every one that the main purpose and objective of TTI. the Mission statement of the site is as follow

we are dedicated to bringing the latest Islamic videos, media and information to help challenge the negative propaganda spread by the media and to educate people about Islam and the Muslim World. The hatred some people might show towards Islam and the ill-practices of some Muslims should not hinder a Person from seeking the truth!

We know new people come on the site who trying to understand Islam or get knowledge about Islam , but we as Muslim write and bash them and generalize them in everything, we don’t differentiate between good or bad, I just want some one to answer me.



Where were the people who tried to break siege of Gaza by going in Boat and endanger their lives? Where they from Muslim countries, or send by one of our Muslim leaders?


After bashing them we complain that people don’t understand Islam, and expect the non Muslims to understand the Islam.

If you want get respect give respect to others and stop jumping to conclusion because Allah the only one who KNOWS the future, we don’t have to worry about the future



Wa salaam alikom

again as advise please think before you P O S T and read this

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37906



Wa salaam Alikom