Saudis campaign against child marriage

[amirah80]

:salam2:

http://www.islamicmediacity.com/cms_files/news_images/1222007249.jpg

A group of Saudi women activists have launched a nationwide campaign to enact a law criminalizing child marriages in Saudi Arabia.


JEDDAH — Shocked by stories of young girls being married off to men at the age of their fathers, a group of Saudi women activists have launched a nationwide campaign to enact a law criminalizing child marriages in the conservative kingdom.
"The idea of the campaign came out after child marriages have become rife in Saudi Arabia," Fawziya Al-Oyouni, president of the Saudi society for defending women's rights, told IslamOnline.net on Friday, September 19.

The activists are planning to file a petition with the Saudi Justice Ministry on September 23, to demand a law criminalizing the marriage of girls under 17.

"The petition will demand setting the marriage age for girls at 17," the society said in a statement.

Oyouni said child marriages often end up in tragedies.

She cited the case of a 16-year-old who has tried to commit suicide after she had been married off to a man in his 70s.

"A 10-year-old child also became a divorcee," said Oyouni.

The issue of child marriages has sparked a headed debate in Saudi Arabia after local papers reported cases of young girls who had been married off to men as old as their fathers.

Last month, the mother of an eight-year-old girl filed a suit to divorce her daughter, who was married to an old man by her father without the child's knowledge.

In many child marriages, girls are given away to older men in return for hefty dowries or as a result of long-standing custom in which a father promises his daughters and sons to marriage while children.

According to local statistics, in the most of these cases, the marriage is concluded without the girls knowledge or consent.

Awareness
Saudi scholars don't see a problem with enacting a law fixing the marriage age for girls.

"There is no Shari`ah ruling against specifying the marriage age for girls," said Dr. Saud Al-Fenesyan, a former rector of the Shari`ah Faculty in the Imam Muhammed bin Saud University.

"Setting the age of 17 or 18 for the marriage of girls is permissible according to the Hanafi school of thought, which is applicable in many man-made laws."

There are no laws in Saudi Arabia defining the minimum age for marriage.

Though the girl must give her consent to the marriage, some marriage officials set the term aside.

A United Nations report on child marriage in 2005 found that 100 million girls were expected to marry by the age of 18 before 2015.

The worst countries for child marriage were Niger, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Afghanistan, India and Bangladesh.

Zuhair Al Harthi, a spokesman for the Saudi human rights authority, believes that laws would not end the phenomenon.

"This issue first requires raising awareness of the parents," he told IOL.

Source: IslamOnline http://www.islamonline.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=163846

[a_brother]

:salam2:

this is the problem...


In many child marriages, girls are given away to older men in return for hefty dowries or as a result of long-standing custom in which a father promises his daughters and sons to marriage while children.

According to local statistics, in the most of these cases, the marriage is concluded without the girls knowledge or consent.



Subhana-Allah, how can some fathers treat their daughters like that???

wasalamo alaikom

[Abel213]

:salam2:

Forced marriage is totally haram and should never be allowed

But they shouldn't make the age limit under puberty, because adult age is subjective and depends on a persons socioeconomic status.

Edit :

Example of a good law-

Kansas: Any applicant who is under age 18 must have either: - Notarized, written consent of all then living parents and legal guardians, or notarized, written consent of one parent or legal guardian and consent of a district court judge

Why do I say this? Because in the US people get married when they are about 23-25 on average, but in Afghanistan people get married at 15-18. So would you apply 18 year old age limit to Afghanistan? No because it would be chaotic

[Maryam Sayyidina]

Subhanallah
well done Saudi! I am waiting the Saudi care about foreign worker specially the treat for worker from my country.

[podolski11]

weird....i thought it was allowed in Islam like when the prophet Muhammad (saw) married aisha at 6 and took her into his(saw) house at 9.........and now u r here saying its wrong.....totally weird!

[nori suja'i]

RasulAllah Muhammad s.a.w. never married Saideena Aisha r.a. when she was 6 but yes when she was 9.

[amirah80]

:salam2:

First, regarding the article this conversation took a turn. Regardless wether Aisah (may Allah be pleased with her) was 6, 9, 11 or whatever is not the issue. They are not campaigning saying that the age of the children is to young the problem is not having their consent to involve them in a marriage. In Islam a women cannot be forced into marriage against her will.

We already hear about adult women getting forced into marriage especially in Saudia. Due to that in 2005 the Mufti Sheikh Abdul-Aziz Al-Sheikh made a ruling about forced marriages for women in Saudia. So now something needs to be done to protect the children. Now if the ruling is put into effect in Saudia protecting the children they probably will have a clause were if the children want to engage in marriage than they can "with their consent".

FYI- When the Prophet (saws) married Aisha she was not forced into it and it was not against her will (without her consent) which is the bases of this article "against the childs will".

[allah is with me]

huh! this world has become so creepy and so bad that my country from were i took birth saudi arabia'n's say it wrong .how can they
in this generation almost all day its wrong but few are sorrect saying tis rite
and when someone froce a person to get married then it is not at all allowed.
i pray for worls people to become correct tottaly correct :tti_sister: ameen

[allah is with me]

no aisha rasi allah huan ha (R.A.A) never married muhammad swt at the age of 6 and took aisha(R.A.A.) AT AGE OF NINE I agree that muhammad swt married aisha(R.A.A)when sha was a child indeed but took her to home when she was well matured ,plz dont creat fitnah

[amirah80]

:salam2:
To "Allah is with me" this is just a hadith to inform you of Aishas age (may Allah be pleased with her). Even thou this has nothing to do with the article I just wanted to inform you of this hadith.

'Aa'ishah, may God be pleased with her, narrated that the Prophet<May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon him> was betrothed (zawaj) to her when she was six years old and he consummated (nikah) his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years. (Saheeh al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64)

[B.H.]

The secular west has no objective absolute moral standard by which to judge right and wrong by, so any criticism by it of Muslims marriages is moot.

Anyway, may in the west would have no problem with allowing the murdering that girl in the womb through abortion if the mother so chose, yet criticize her being married off young? Talk about being warped by Satan. Does not the Quran speak of the unbelievers as having a disease in their hearts?

However, a woman should not ever be forced to marry against their will and those who force such on a woman (whether father or whoever) should suffer the penalty allowed under law.

[Aapa]

Salaam,


I am concerned about the post. There is very little factual information. There are random references to reports..made by the UN. What percentage of the Muslim population carries on these weddings. What are the soico-economic status of the families. What are the educational backgrounds. What are the current statistics on child brides. What are the current rulings of such a union. What defines pedophilia. What are the terms that make these unions legal. Give us something so we can become informed and not make emotional judgements out of context.

[amirah80]

Salaam,


I am concerned about the post. There is very little factual information. There are random references to reports..made by the UN. What percentage of the Muslim population carries on these weddings. What are the soico-economic status of the families. What are the educational backgrounds. What are the current statistics on child brides. What are the current rulings of such a union. What defines pedophilia. What are the terms that make these unions legal. Give us something so we can become informed and not make emotional judgements out of context.

Salam Sister

The facts remain that child marriages in Saudia do exist and not limited to just Saudia. But, since that is what the article is about we can stay on Saudia. If it is one random report or hundreds. The fact remains forcing children into marriage is against Shariah point blank. Regardless of economic standing or educational backgrounds. Aganist the childs will does not change regarding those issues. Pedophilia can be explained but no one suggested that here or in the article. The terms that make the unions legal are getting married by the laws governing Shariah so they say. The problem is again "Against the will of the child". There is nothing to get emotional about here except in Islam it is a woman's right to refuse marriage to whomever she pleases no matter what age. If the children opt not to marry there fathers should not force them without their consent, period. Regardless if stats show one person or hundreds. I am sure stats or additional info to form your opinion can be found if you search.

[Aapa]

Salaam,


There was no emotion, whatsoever. It proves an argument if one is able to present robust statements. We are a forum. This may become an emotional issue. The reason I used the word pedophilia is because it is the object of inference. Society objects to a child bride because it would please the lust of a pedophile. A bride has to be mature. As Muslims we need to be able to express why child brides are not permitted in the Sharia. We need to make comfortable those who are thinking of reverting to Islam. In a sense we need to have an Islamic perpspective of the parameters of maturity. What is the mark of maturity for a girl to metamorphsis into a woman.
I am not attempting to limit the scope of this post. I am merely pointing out that we need definition. I thank you for reading my response.

[amirah80]

Salaam,


There was no emotion, whatsoever. It proves an argument if one is able to present robust statements. We are a forum. This may become an emotional issue. The reason I used the word pedophilia is because it is the object of inference. Society objects to a child bride because it would please the lust of a pedophile. A bride has to be mature. As Muslims we need to be able to express why child brides are not permitted in the Sharia. We need to make comfortable those who are thinking of reverting to Islam. In a sense we need to have an Islamic perpspective of the parameters of maturity. What is the mark of maturity for a girl to metamorphsis into a woman.
I am not attempting to limit the scope of this post. I am merely pointing out that we need definition. I thank you for reading my response.

Salam Sister

Yes, no one disputes this is a forum. This could be emotional for some if they want to look at the issue blindly. As a muslim when we read you will understand the problem in this situation which is not the age. For a non muslim inshallah we can clear up some misconceptions regarding the age differences which could be their problem with the article. Because the information is out there to obtain and addressing it here will shed light on the situations for muslims and non. I will post again to define pedophile so those who think that is the case can achieve a better understanding of the term and not use it again in this situation. Most that would have a problem with the ages are the western world as we know it. Society here in the USA deem adult to be 18 which is there law so one has formulated their opinion of adulthood based on that. But, with that said if a parent as in this case thinks the child is old enough to partake in marriage then they should let that be there choice. Not force them. They are forcing obviously thinking the child cannot make that choice so that evidently means that they do not need to be married.

Majority say when the maturity level is when puberty is met that a women can be married. At this time women can have babies etc... Some scholars say when puberty is met and they are able to reason. But, setting the age of 18 or 17 does not deem that the age of reasoning. Prime example we see some 18 year olds acting imaturely while some underage children 16, 15 etc have more sense. Plus if someone has issues with it they must evaluate the situation themselves. Because back in the day in the USA the age for marriage was not 18. Children were getting married. My grandmother was married at 16. So this can cause a emotional dilemma for some due to lack of information and knowledge. But, we have a number of threads that are done even regarding the Prophet (saws) and his marriage I will post some and whomever reads this thread can go their to clarify there misconceptions if the problem is due to age. Muslims should have a problem with this article due to against the will of the child.

[jaffarabduraheem]

Here's the crux of the situation. Rasul Allah (saaws) married Aisha (raa) at the age she was because she had entered puberty and she consented. This is the requirement of Islam. The Saudi attempt to put an age limit on marriage is an affront to the sharia and an obvious attempt to westernize the heart of our holy land.:astag:

[amirah80]

:salam2:

Exactly

[amirah80]

:salam2::salam2:

Here is the thread to clear anyones misconceptions on age.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2585&highlight=Prophet+marriage+Aisha

I will edit and add the other thread as well with the definition

*edited*
Here was a thread done on age and you will find the definition within it 1st page.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34682&highlight=pedophile

[shaheeda35]

:salam2:
My daughter had her cycle at 9, so is she to be married? She is not emotionally or mentally ready for this, she is still in school. A child that young has no clue what to do, she just wants to play. To force them into marriage is just horrible and the parents should be ashamed of themselves. :astag::astag:

[Khalil2u]

Salaam alaykum,
I was on the wicked you tube and saw a post that said a horrible thing about the prophet. I don't wish to repeat what it said. It led me to look for a hadith concerning the matter. There is a hadith about this. The prophet pbuh saw Aisha in his dream and when he saw her at age 6 he knew he was to marry her. He married her @ 9 and consummated their marriage at puberty. Aisha's father consented to the marriage and she did not resist. This was very confusing to me and hard to digest. I had to look to the Quran for this to see what it said about age and marriage. The Quran is the word of Allah SWT. The only thing I could find in the Quran I saw about age and marriage was when we inshallah go to paradise we will have mates of like age. This leads me to believe we should marry people of our own age. That is just my opinion. As far as child brides go. The prophet Muhammad was very special and I know that you should follow his sunnah. This does not mean you are the prophet pbuh. What makes people think they are entitled to everything he had. Emulating everything he did will not make you a prophet. I love hadith but the Quran is law. It does not say this is right or wrong. So I won't say its wrong I will just say that Allah SWT made things unknown to man so we should look to Quran and make dua for him to guide us. This is a very hard issue just as slavery is. Slavery has been abolished but is legal to us. Because it is oppressive we as humans turn away from it and Allah SWT says you are rewarded for freeing slaves and stopping oppression. I think the evidence and statistics shows that children married and sexual with adults are oppressed and suffer from all types of psychological afflictions. So this to me should lead us to make this not be the norm. However people should be very careful about making things legal or illegal when Allah SWT has given his laws. If Allah SWT allowed this to the prophet pbuh I think we should be very careful of the language we use concerning this. Also men of this earth don't have the moral standing of the prophet pbuh or his knowledge and should also be careful of the things that they do. The men of this earth no matter how pious could never measure up to him or his moral character. That is why he along with the select others were chosen for the prophethood. They were few and we are many. We will all pay for our deeds one day so try to be the best you can be. Khalil2u4ever.:hijabi:

[q8penpals]

Assalam aliekum

There are many different issues at play here (an yes, we get plenty of news stories about child marriages from all over the Muslim world here in Kuwait).

The first issue - whether a child of 8 or 9 or so is EMOTIONALLY mature enough to get married, puberty aside. We all know that the onset of puberty (the actual BEGINNING of puberty) starts an on-slaught of bodily change, hormonal fluxuations, and emotional growth. Therefore, just because a girl has STARTED to menstruate, or a boy has first ENTERED puberty, that does NOT necessarily make them a mature adult, ready for marriage. Many people change personalities and habits DURING puberty, therefore, if you married someone just at the onset of puberty, they could seem to be a completely different person several years later.

The second issue - a HUGE age gap in a marriage. Seriously, WHAT do elderly men see in barely pubescent girls? Even if the girl were 25 and marries a guy 65 - what the heck do they have in common? He could have grandkids older than her?! And when it is a man the age of the girl's father, and she is a CHILD (the 8 or 9 year olds mentioned in the article), seriously, SERIOUSLY does that man really think he is getting a life-match, a dedicated wife, a woman ready to be a mother to another being?!?! Heck, she is most likely going to be a young widow, probably with a few kids, and no husband to take care of her. That is just selfish of the men! If the article was about people marrying their post-pubescent girls off to boys/men say, 5 years older than them, I don't think it would be such an issue. At least they are in the same generation!

The third issue - the age of Aisha at her marriage to the Prophet; irrelevent completely. As shortly as 100 years ago, the average life expectancy on the earth was about 50 years (less in many areas). Many people got married in their early teens - but again, it was generally people within the same generation, not geriatric men marrying children. Many cultures married young years ago, and when we remember that the Prophet was on the earth 1400 years ago, the age of Aisha is of no consequence.

The fourth issue - the "selling" of girls into marriage (and this is reported in Kuwait quite a bit) where the father "holds" the girls dowry for her (and of course, she never gets it). Any father who does that is dirt.

The fifth issue - consent of such children into marriage - again, it goes to the maturity issue. I have been teaching all my adult life, plus babysat and did children's programs at the library and town hall - I have NEVER IN MY LIFE met a child under the age of 14 that would be able to comprehend what it takes to actually get a married adult. Again, just because a girl is menstruating does not make her ready for marriage.

And finally, the 6th issue - COME ON PEOPLE! Picture your grandpa with a 10 year old girl (or even a teenager)!!!! EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

The most basic requirement in Islam is that the people getting married must have entered puberty and consent to the marriage; it is the PARENT'S RESPONSIBILITY to make sure that their children are EMOTIONALLY MATURE enough to be married (parents of boys too - many boys just want to be "big boys" and are not ready to be responsible for the care and well-being of themselves, let alone a wife and children). I have known too many young teenage girls who insist they are ready to be married and pout and cry and fight with their parents about getting married - that behaviour in itself shows those particular girls are NOT mature enough to get married.

These are all my humble thoughts to make you think.

Lana

[Abel213]

Assalam aliekum

There are many different issues at play here (an yes, we get plenty of news stories about child marriages from all over the Muslim world here in Kuwait).

The first issue - whether a child of 8 or 9 or so is EMOTIONALLY mature enough to get married, puberty aside. We all know that the onset of puberty (the actual BEGINNING of puberty) starts an on-slaught of bodily change, hormonal fluxuations, and emotional growth. Therefore, just because a girl has STARTED to menstruate, or a boy has first ENTERED puberty, that does NOT necessarily make them a mature adult, ready for marriage. Many people change personalities and habits DURING puberty, therefore, if you married someone just at the onset of puberty, they could seem to be a completely different person several years later.

The second issue - a HUGE age gap in a marriage. Seriously, WHAT do elderly men see in barely pubescent girls? Even if the girl were 25 and marries a guy 65 - what the heck do they have in common? He could have grandkids older than her?! And when it is a man the age of the girl's father, and she is a CHILD (the 8 or 9 year olds mentioned in the article), seriously, SERIOUSLY does that man really think he is getting a life-match, a dedicated wife, a woman ready to be a mother to another being?!?! Heck, she is most likely going to be a young widow, probably with a few kids, and no husband to take care of her. That is just selfish of the men! If the article was about people marrying their post-pubescent girls off to boys/men say, 5 years older than them, I don't think it would be such an issue. At least they are in the same generation!

The third issue - the age of Aisha at her marriage to the Prophet; irrelevent completely. As shortly as 100 years ago, the average life expectancy on the earth was about 50 years (less in many areas). Many people got married in their early teens - but again, it was generally people within the same generation, not geriatric men marrying children. Many cultures married young years ago, and when we remember that the Prophet was on the earth 1400 years ago, the age of Aisha is of no consequence.

The fourth issue - the "selling" of girls into marriage (and this is reported in Kuwait quite a bit) where the father "holds" the girls dowry for her (and of course, she never gets it). Any father who does that is dirt.

The fifth issue - consent of such children into marriage - again, it goes to the maturity issue. I have been teaching all my adult life, plus babysat and did children's programs at the library and town hall - I have NEVER IN MY LIFE met a child under the age of 14 that would be able to comprehend what it takes to actually get a married adult. Again, just because a girl is menstruating does not make her ready for marriage.

And finally, the 6th issue - COME ON PEOPLE! Picture your grandpa with a 10 year old girl (or even a teenager)!!!! EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

The most basic requirement in Islam is that the people getting married must have entered puberty and consent to the marriage; it is the PARENT'S RESPONSIBILITY to make sure that their children are EMOTIONALLY MATURE enough to be married (parents of boys too - many boys just want to be "big boys" and are not ready to be responsible for the care and well-being of themselves, let alone a wife and children). I have known too many young teenage girls who insist they are ready to be married and pout and cry and fight with their parents about getting married - that behaviour in itself shows those particular girls are NOT mature enough to get married.

These are all my humble thoughts to make you think.

Lana

:salam2:

I understand your feelings, but I fell you are not looking outside of your perspective. This 10 years old girl in Afghanistan is in a family of 12 children and they are poor without much food or medicine. The family is starving and the father cannot provide. The sons go and sell gum on the street, some of them learn to make guns or some even must leave their families forever because they are too expensive. A man is close friends with this family and he feels the pity for them, so he offers to marry their young daughter and he will help them financially. The family asks the daughter and she says ok I will do it. What do you think is the other option for this girl? Go to university, get a job? Allow her family to starve? This man is a savior for this family and for this girl. Plz, think about these issues because not every1 on earth is fortunate enough to be able to choose all aspect of the life.

[q8penpals]

Assalam aliekum

Using the family you described as a base, why wouldn't you marry your daughter off to a man just a few years older? Why a man the age of her father? Surely there have to be men of a closer marriageable age than the age of her father, or older? If she is living in Afghanistan, the average life expectency in afghanistan TODAY is 44 years old, and Afghnistan has more men in the marriageable age group than there are women.

So, this girl marries a guy her father's age, pops out a few kids in the first few years of her marriage, and then her husband dies, and now she is a young widow with a few kids - how marriageable is she now? Look at the facts - especially in poor countries, men are less likely to marry women that already have children - why should he use his scarce resources to feed and clothe children that aren't his? I am not saying this is the Islamic thing, but it is an unfortunate truth.

And what girls are the boys her age marrying then, if the young girls marry the old guys? The young boys have to wait until they are old to find a bride - and then marry a really young girl, because all the ladies their age are already married (or widowed with kids), thus perpetuating a down-ward spiral of society.

You say I haven't looked outside my perspective - I have traveled extensively all over the world, and I can tell you, there is plenty wrong in the world for children already, without having to become an adult sooner than they are ready to. You want my true perspective? It is up to ADULTS to be responsible for their CHILDREN. If this supposed family in Afghanistan had 12 kids, because they truly believed that they were supposed to have 12 kids and Allah would provide, does that include marrying your child off to an old man? The child should not have to be convinced to do something that she is most likely not ready to do, by guilt of her father's not being able to care for the children that he made.

And then, marrying her off to have her out of his house is one thing, but why to an old man? Why not to someone in her own generation (if even a bit older) so that they can share things in common, raise their children together, grow old together?

I looked at your profile - you are but a mere 19 years old; I am old enough to be your mother and have experienced quite a bit in and around the world. If you were my son, I would make sure I would sit down with you and discuss what makes a good husband and a good marriage, and if you were in any way not ready for the huge, grave responsibility of being a loving husband and father, I would advise you to wait to get married. I don't think that these parents marrying their pre-teen daughters off have had that conversation with their daughters. In Kuwait, I have read many stories of little girls (not Kuwaiti, but in Kuwait) that have been married off to old men and they end up in a horrible situation - the girls don't know how to cook, clean, launder, have sex, or take care of a sick child - because they are children themselves!

My first husband was 9 years older than me and even those 9 years presented problems. We were at different points in our lives; we had different historical life experiences; we were at different maturity levels; and while the age difference was not specifically the cause of our divorce, it WAS a problem in some things. I am not saying that all marriages with large age gaps will have problems, but it is just one more obstacle in an already difficult world.

And, why don't we hear more stories of older women marrying young boys? People use the Prophet's marriage to Aisha as an example of men marrying young girls, but wasn't the Prophet's wife Khadija 15-20 years older than He? And that was his First marriage, the marriage and wife that he had the longest! So why wouldn't the man you mentioned in Afghanistan with 12 kids marry off his sons to older women to get them out of the house? One can argue both ways.

But alas, I don't want to argue, so I will post no more about the subject. I will not reply any more to this thread.

Lana

[Abel213]

Assalam aliekum

:wasalam:

Using the family you described as a base, why wouldn't you marry your daughter off to a man just a few years older? Why a man the age of her father? Surely there have to be men of a closer marriageable age than the age of her father, or older? If she is living in Afghanistan, the average life expectency in afghanistan TODAY is 44 years old, and Afghnistan has more men in the marriageable age group than there are women.

44 age expectancy is because so many infants die at ages 2,3,4 and 5, if they live past that than they can get old.

So, this girl marries a guy her father's age, pops out a few kids in the first few years of her marriage, and then her husband dies, and now she is a young widow with a few kids - how marriageable is she now? Look at the facts - especially in poor countries, men are less likely to marry women that already have children - why should he use his scarce resources to feed and clothe children that aren't his? I am not saying this is the Islamic thing, but it is an unfortunate truth.

if he died, than his brother marries her usually


And what girls are the boys her age marrying then, if the young girls marry the old guys? The young boys have to wait until they are old to find a bride - and then marry a really young girl, because all the ladies their age are already married (or widowed with kids), thus perpetuating a down-ward spiral of society.

her age boys have no resources, no jobs and are just trying to help their own families.

You say I haven't looked outside my perspective - I have traveled extensively all over the world, and I can tell you, there is plenty wrong in the world for children already, without having to become an adult sooner than they are ready to. You want my true perspective? It is up to ADULTS to be responsible for their CHILDREN. If this supposed family in Afghanistan had 12 kids, because they truly believed that they were supposed to have 12 kids and Allah would provide, does that include marrying your child off to an old man? The child should not have to be convinced to do something that she is most likely not ready to do, by guilt of her father's not being able to care for the children that he made.

these are average ppl, because they are poor they rely on children to help them in the fields and there is no contraceptive, they dont do it for fun. afghan children want to help their parents and family, just like kids all over the world. if they think marriage is the best for their family, they will surely do that alhamdullilah

And then, marrying her off to have her out of his house is one thing, but why to an old man? Why not to someone in her own generation (if even a bit older) so that they can share things in common, raise their children together, grow old together?


older men have resources, the young ones who are looking for a wife usually marry a cousin before they have another wife and they are more established, inshallah


I looked at your profile - you are but a mere 19 years old; I am old enough to be your mother and have experienced quite a bit in and around the world. If you were my son, I would make sure I would sit down with you and discuss what makes a good husband and a good marriage, and if you were in any way not ready for the huge, grave responsibility of being a loving husband and father, I would advise you to wait to get married. I don't think that these parents marrying their pre-teen daughters off have had that conversation with their daughters. In Kuwait, I have read many stories of little girls (not Kuwaiti, but in Kuwait) that have been married off to old men and they end up in a horrible situation - the girls don't know how to cook, clean, launder, have sex, or take care of a sick child - because they are children themselves!

i am an afghan person sister, i am 19 years old but i know about my country and what these people are going through. good husband good marriage is different in afghanistan than what you are thinking. ppl are poor there and have to survive, plz understand. sister these girls know more about housework than any other people in the world, i am telling you the situation as it is in reality.

My first husband was 9 years older than me and even those 9 years presented problems. We were at different points in our lives; we had different historical life experiences; we were at different maturity levels; and while the age difference was not specifically the cause of our divorce, it WAS a problem in some things. I am not saying that all marriages with large age gaps will have problems, but it is just one more obstacle in an already difficult world.

the marriage in these places is not the kind that you are thinking about

And, why don't we hear more stories of older women marrying young boys? People use the Prophet's marriage to Aisha as an example of men marrying young girls, but wasn't the Prophet's wife Khadija 15-20 years older than He? And that was his First marriage, the marriage and wife that he had the longest! So why wouldn't the man you mentioned in Afghanistan with 12 kids marry off his sons to older women to get them out of the house? One can argue both ways.

there is no problem with older women, i never say anything about that.

But alas, I don't want to argue, so I will post no more about the subject. I will not reply any more to this thread.



Lana


if you honestly care about these girls, than you should try to understand how bad their situation is. how bad is this situation. its so bad. ppl are like living like animals. on the street, no food, no water, nothing. they have to make a life out of this. plz try to understand

[Aapa]

Salaam,

This is what I feared. We are now in the speculation arena. The orginial article was written on an emotional level. I did a little research. The group of women activists who are behind the presentation of the new legislation are backed up by an office in Washington, DC.
So now we enter a new arena. This is politically motivated. The agenda behind the legislation is not as simple as it sounds. One woman was expelled from a university.
What I am suggesting is we really need to undestand the motive behind this movement.
I am not suggesting that I agree with child brides. However, we need to have more information before we can respond.
It upsets me when our members feel they cannot respond. We need our forum to be inclusive and not exclusive..we have brillant minds. Nor should this post be closed. We need facts.

[Searching_soul]

:salam2:

Well we all know that our beloved Prophet (peace be upon him) married Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) at the age of 9. But Does that mean that we are allowed as well? Did any of the companions marry a woman at that age, while they were the BEST at following the Sunnah of the prophet? I don't Recall anyone doing that, but please help me if im wrong.

Maybe this is an exception and it was allowed only for the prophet, just like he was allowed to marry 11 wives while we aren't. And its for a purpose that he married Aisha. There are lots of reasons for it. And the major one, is to teach her the Deen relating to the affairs of wives and husbands so that it could be taught to us later on through traditions (Hadeeths). And When men marry girls at younger ages now, i don't think they are doing them any benefit.


:wasalam:

[jaffarabduraheem]

I see that the example of Rasul Allah's marriage to 11 wives and our limit of 4 is brought up quite a bit to support the theory that ordinary Muslimun are not allowed marriages of the type discussed in this thread. It should be noted that the reason we can definitively say that the average Muslim is limited to 4 wives is because it is stated as such in Al-Quran. We also note that unless Al-Quran or Rasul Allah (saaws) states otherwise, we are permitted if not required to follow his example.

Let us not allow this wicked western mindset to lead us to judge the deen of Al-Islam or assume that we know better than Allah when a person is ready for marriage. The primary purpose of marriage is procreation which a person is able to do at puberty, no "mental preparation" necessary. We are allowed to count age not to determine the rules of things like this, but as a passing curiosity (it's been so many years since this and that etc.). When you begin to use years and age to determine right and wrong, you have fallen into kufr and you need to re-evaluate what it means to say, "La ilaha il Allah." Allah's rules are perfect and permanent and totally guiltless. If you find fault with them, rest assured Allah is not wrong.

[amirah80]

:salam2:

I will be closing the thread due to the following reasons.

1) Because this was permissable not haram. When expressing your views and deciding to go against something permissable please bring your daleel. The Prophet (saws) prohibited alot of things that were permissable at one point in Islam. This was not one of them.

Also, just because something is permissable does not mean it is mandatory for you to do. So if you decide not to partake in it is your business but trying to hender of the families that have daughters at 15 or 16 that want to marry a man 30 is hers. Alot, of people have issues with a man taking 4 wives. This is permissable for a man and not haram the same as child marriages. So we as muslims have no right to go against what is permissable by Allah and think you have better reasoning than he.

2) The Grand Mufti of Saudia Sheikh Adul-Aziz Al-Shiekh has warned the parents not to marry their daughter off to men over their 50's. Not because it is haram but because of others reasons he stated.

3)The motive the group had that promoted the story is irrevelent. Irrevelent why? Because it is not a lie and this things are happening. This is not some conspirarcy against Islam. This is stating the facts and is in Saudia news along with other papers. The thing is when facts are brought to light in any situation and is the truth we need to clear the misconceptions not anticipate a parties motive why did they say that but defend our religion when there is just case.


4) The topic is straying from the subject at hand. "Against the will of the Child" and that is not acceptable. This part is what goes againt Shariah!