ISRAEL is the biggest terrorist organization in the world [Archive] - TTI

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stranger786

11-13-2006, 12:03 AM

ISRAEL is the biggest terrorist ogganization in the world

The questions that nobody never ask

"Question: Which country alone in the Middle East has nuclear weapons?Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East seized the sovereign territory of other nations by military force and continues to occupy it in defiance of United Nations Security Council resolutions?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East routinely violates the international borders of another sovereign state with warplanes and artillery and naval gunfire?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What American ally in the Middle East has for years sent assassins into other countries to kill its political enemies (a practice sometimes called exporting terrorism)?
Answer: Israel.

Question: In which country in the Middle East have high-ranking military officers admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war were executed?
Answer: Israel.

Question Q: What country in the Middle East refuses to prosecute its soldiers who have acknowledged executing prisoners of war?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country in the Middle East created 762,000 refugees and refuses to allow them to return to their homes, farms and businesses?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country in the Middle East refuses to pay compensation to people whose land, bank accounts and businesses it confiscated?
Answer: Israel.

Question: In what country in the Middle East was a high-ranking United Nations diplomat assassinated?
Answer: Israel.

Question: In what country in the Middle East did the man who ordered the assassination of a high-ranking U.N. diplomat become prime minister?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country in the Middle East blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a U.S. ship, the USS Liberty, in international waters, killing 34 and wounding 171 US sailors?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country in the Middle East employed a spy, Jonathan Pollard, to steal classified documents and then gave some of them to the Soviet Union?
Answer: Israel.

Question: What country at first denied any official connection to Pollard, then voted to make him a citizen and has continuously demanded that the US president grant Pollard a full pardon?
Answer: Israel.

Question. What Middle East country allows US Jewish murderers to flee to its country to escape punishment in the United States and refuses to extradite them once in their custody?
Answer: Israel

Question. What Middle East country preaches against hate yet builds a shrine and a memorial for a murderer who killed 29 Palestinians while they prayed in their Mosque.
Answer: Israel

Question: What country on Planet Earth has the second most powerful lobby in the United States, according to a recent Fortune magazine survey of Washington insiders?
Answer: Israel.

Question. Which country in the Middle East deliberately targeted a U.N. Refugee Camp in Qana, Lebanon and killed 103 innocent men, women, and especially children in 1996?
Answer: Israel

Question: Which country in the Middle East is in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council resolutions and has been protected from 29 more by U.S. vetoes?
Answer: Israel.

Question: Which country in the Middle East receives more than one-third of all U.S. aid yet is the 16th richest country in the world?
Answer: Israel

Question: Which country in the Middle East receives U.S. weapons for free and then sells the technology to the Republic of China even at the objections of the U.S.?
Answer: Israel

Question: Which country in the Middle East routinely insults the US people by having its Prime Minister address the United States Congress and lecturing them like children on why they have no right to reduce foreign aid?
Answer: Israel

Question: Which country in the Middle East had its Prime Minister announce to his staff not to worry about what the United States says because "We control America?"
Answer: Israel

Question: What country in the Middle East was cited by Amnesty International for demolishing more than 4000 innocent Palestinian homes as a means of ethnic cleansing.
Answer: Israel

Question: Which country in the Middle East has just recently used a weapon of mass destruction, a one-ton smart bomb, dropping it in the center of a highly populated area killing 15 civilians including 9 children?
Answer: Israel

Question: Which country in the Middle East routinely kills young Palestinian children for no reason other than throwing stones at armored vehicles, bulldozers, or tanks?
Answer: Israel

Question: Which country in the Middle East signed the Oslo Accords promising to halt any new Jewish Settlement construction, but instead, has built more than 270 new settlements since the signing?
Answer: Israel

Question: Which country in the Middle East has assassinated more than 100 political officials of its opponent in the last 2 years while killing hundreds of civilians in the process, including dozens of children?
Answer: Israel

Question: Which country in the Middle East regularly violates the Geneva Convention by imposing collective punishment on entire towns, villages, and camps, for the acts of a few, and even goes as far as demolishing entire villages while people are still in their homes?
Answer: Israel

Question: What country in the Middle East is the United States threatening to attack because of fear that it may be a threat to us and to our allies?
Answer: Syria & Iran

It's absolutely ridiculous to even suggest that Hezbollah is the aggressor in the current crisis occurring in the Middle East. If Hezbollah took Israeli soldiers then shouldn't Israel show a little restraint in bombing Hezbollah buildings since its possible the soldiers are inside of them? There retrieval of two soldiers is being used as a pretext to destroy Lebanon as well as kill it's civilians.

800+ civilians have died thus far with 2500+ injured. If you compare the American news media (Fox News, ABC, CNBC, MSNBC, CBS, etc.) to international news sources such as the BBC or CBC you realize that in the USA you're being horse fed filtered and biased news.

The Israeli’s have over 11,000 Palestinian and Lebanese prisoners in there prisons, including women and children so to make a fuss about two captured soldiers is at the least hypocritical. The post below is a perfect example of the targeting of civilians by Israel. Let me also remind you that these officers were never charged with any crime.

stranger786

11-13-2006, 12:07 AM

sorry i could not stop to post this becoz of recent killing of innocent family member and then veto of USA in UN,

Remember me in urs Prayers.

IMAM

11-13-2006, 12:09 AM

hambaAllah

11-13-2006, 01:23 AM

:bismillah:
:salam2:
heheheheheheehehhehehe my toes too cant stopped laughing, apologies to my bros n sis for over reacting to rosiee comments, if u know what i mean ;););)
:wasalam: :hijabi:

IMAM

11-13-2006, 01:35 AM

.......what we see is a function of what we dont see or choose not to see.
well i will agree with you they are wesern after all they are from western countries.....

sister harb

11-13-2006, 09:24 AM

Dear Rosiee tries to kill as to laughing?

Here are some information what this "free and democratic state" has actually did last days:

Israeli forces beat schoolchildren demonstrating in Jerusalem;
use excessive violence against 10-year-olds
Date: 09 / 11 / 2006 Time: 15:50

Jerusalem - Ma'an - Israeli forces have forcefully dispersed a school students' march in occupied Jerusalem. The march started from several schools in the city, and converged in the city centre, in condemnation of the massacres in Beit Hanoun and al-Yamun.

Ma'an's correspondent in Jerusalem reported that, when the march reached the Israeli police station at the entrance of Salah El-Din Street, the school children stopped and started to chant slogans, before a large force of Israeli police and Israeli border guards attacked the participants in the march, assaulting them with beatings, and launching tear gas canisters into the crowd.

Our reporter added that more than 25 female and male school students were beaten, amongst them 8 female students, who were fiercely beaten, causing one of them to lose consciousness. It is alleged that one of the policemen continued to beat her while she was unconscious, while a ten-year old student was assaulted before being arrested.

Israeli soldiers beat a Palestinian with their rifles, causing fractures to his head and chest
Date: 10 / 11 / 2006 Time: 17:32

Ma'an - The Israeli forces attacked a Palestinian citizen on Thursday who was trying to cross a checkpoint in the north west of the occupied West Bank.

Zakariyya As-Saddi, a human rights worker in the occupied Palestinian territories witnessed first-hand the attack.

Shadi Hussein Shatara, 24, from the West Bank city of Qalqiliya, was trying to cross the Jit checkpoint east of Qalqiliya when the Israeli soldiers stopped him, tied his hands and struck him with the butts of their rifles, As-Saddi reported. The soldiers fractured Shatara's head and chest.

To increase the man's suffering, the soldiers then delayed his evacuation by ambulance for four hours.

Also they have arrested many members of PLC (the Palestinian Legistative Council, ministers of government and other palestinian officials), killed journalists etc. Yep real free and democratic state indeed.

Submitter

11-13-2006, 02:48 PM

Do you really know what goes on in Israel? Apart from just the things you see and read in the news?

This is what the Israeli military do to people who demonstrate peacefully:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060816&articleId=2982

Is this "very western and very good"? Please don't be so naive.

zarah

11-14-2006, 09:58 AM

:salam2:

Jazzak-Allah khair for sharing!:arabi1:

:wasalam:

dna1987

11-18-2006, 09:24 PM

:salam2:

I like the title of this thread.

yasser_khan1210

12-02-2006, 09:27 AM

in the name of allah the most benefecient and the most merciful

now let us examine the situation of the whole world now let me ask
1) which nation in the whole world has most buying power
2) which nation is stongest in terms of nuclear power
3) which nation is the most animosed against islam
4) which nation has the most supressing power
5) which country in the world has the power and the authority to attack destroy any nation
6) which country has unquestionable authority in terms legal matters in the international arena
7) which country is involved in in doing massacers of muslims at large in the name of terrorism
8) which country sexuallay tortured its prisoners and abused their war time prisoners

now tell me brother which is this country

let me give you a one word answer

the answer is so simple and clear
its usa ( united states and america)

does this mean usa is a terrrorist
but you dare not call it aterrorist or else youy too will be dealt with tip of the gun

why is it that when u have time to call israel a terrorist it surely does not mean that i am in support of israel but listen and remeber that take a look at the western world arent they civilzed beast or arent they licensed terrorist.

make not any comment before you think ots right

when we muslime fight for freedom or our nation its called as terrorism but when they they do it it is called thefight for liberation

what if in the process they kill one lakh forty thousand muslims any how think before its late and act accordingly hope next time you write against america

samiha

12-02-2006, 01:59 PM

Assalam.

let me give you a one word answer

the answer is so simple and clear
its usa ( united states of america)

seems it was more than one word... lol, no problems just thought i'd say that.

I read this a while ago, but it doesn't matter in how many words and ways you put it, things happen, and we should do all we can as muslim brothers and sisters, weither its sending money or just making dua, finding fault and complaining doesn't change much.

wassalam.

sister harb

12-02-2006, 04:00 PM

These are latest (or even most of them) terrorist acts:

Special report: Israeli violations of ceasefire agreement within the last seven days
Date: 02 / 12 / 2006 Time: 12:45

Gaza – Ma'an - A newly-released report has revealed that Israeli violations of the ceasefire agreement, since its inception at 6am on Sunday 26th November, are ongoing and vary between killing, arrests and the demolishing of Palestinian houses in the Gaza Strip.

The report, which was prepared by Palestine today news, said that the West Bank cities and towns witnessed most of the Israeli violations. On the second day of the ceasefire, the Israelis killed a man and an old woman in Jenin, while two boys were killed on the fifth and the sixth days. A total of 130 Palestinians have been arrested, and many houses have been demolished, in addition to many incursions and forced entry campaigns.

Day one of the truce - Sunday 26th November
• Israelis arrest a man in Hebron city;
• Arrest one in Beituniya, near Ramallah;
• Four boys arrested in Abu Dis;
• One boy injured in 'Azzun, near Qalqilia

The second day – Monday 27th November
• The killing of the leader of the An Nasser Salah Addin Brigades in Qabatia, south of Jenin;
• The killing of an elderly lady, also in Qabatia;
• The arrest of six Fatah members in Nablus;
• The arrest of three Hamas members in Qalqilia;
• The arrest of two Hamas members in Ramallah;
• The arrest of three Hamas members in Hebron;
• The arrest of a Palestinian at the israeli barrier near Qalqilia,
• The arrest of three more in Nablus
• A military incursion into Bethlehem, and the arrest of another Palestinian.

The third day - Tuesday 28th November
• Israeli military incursion into Tulkarem, arrest three.
• The arrest of eleven Palestinians in Silat Harithiya near Jenin (mostly from one family),
• The demolition of two houses in 'Arabbuna, near Jenin;
• Assassination attempt against Palestinian activist in Qabatia, near Jenin;
• Incursion into As Samu, south of Hebron, launching a search campaign in the town
• Abduction of an activist from the Al Aqsa Brigades, and two other citizens in Qabatia

The fourth day - Wednesday 29th November
• Israeli artillery shelled the northern area of the Gaza Strip
• Israeli military incursion into the villages of Tulkarem, and a search campaign throughout the villages.
• Israeli special forces abducted Jihad Abu Khadir in Qalqilia.

The fifth day – Thursday 30th November
• The killing of a boy in Beita, south of Nablus;
• Invasion of Azza refugee camp in Bethlehem, and the arrest of 11 Palestinians;
• Incursion in Tuqu', south of Bethlehem, and the arrest of two citizens;
• The arrest of four people from Ash Shawawra, east of Bethlehem;
• The arrest of one person in the Karkafa area of the city of Bethlehem;
• Four arrested n Nablus;
• Eight arrested in Ramallah;
• Four students arrested in Qarawat Bani Zaid, in the Ramallah area;
• Three arrested in the city of Hebron;
• Two boys arrested in 'Yabad, near Jenin;
• Five arrested in Nablus and Balata refugee camp;
• Israeli forces raided farms south of Tubas, forcing the farmers off the land;
• Israeli military forces closed the entrance of Tammun, harassing the citizens;
• Israeli military forces occupied the home of a citizen in 'Alar, turning it into a military post;
• Houses demolished in Kfar Etzion and Salfit;
• One boy arrested at Atarot barrier, north of Jerusalem;
• Military raid on Salfit, shooting at the houses of the citizens;
• Arrest of three Palestinians on the border with Egypt;
• Israeli military bulldozers demolish several houses and farmers houses north and east of Qalqilia;
• Bulldozers demolish the home of a Palestinian citizen in Wadi ar Rasha, near Qalqilia.

Sixth day – Friday 1st December
• The killing of a Palestinian in Hebron;
• A full-scale military operation in Asira, north of Nablus, and the arrest of 25 Palestinians in the town of Asira, and the city of Nablus;
• The arrest of a Palestinian citizen in Nablus;
• The arrest of a Palestinian citizen in ash-Shawawra in Bethlehem, and the theft of his money and gold jewelry;
• The arrest of a man in Bani Na'im, east of Hebron;
• The arrest of a man at the "Container" barrier, between Abu Dis and Bethlehem;
• The injury of a Palestinian boy in 'Azzun, near Qalqilia;
• The injury of a Palestinian boy in Sa'ir, north of Hebron;
• The arrest of two young men in Qalqilia;

The seventh day – Saturday 2nd of December (so far)
• Military campaign in many towns of the West Bank, and the arrest of many Palestinians...

Source: http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=17712

And p.s. sisters and brothers; one way to help our sisters and brothers in Palestine is also spread information and discuss about it...

shabnum

12-04-2006, 06:06 PM

:salam2:

its all propaganda!!! against islam.

:wasalam:

sister harb

12-04-2006, 06:23 PM

:salam2:

its all propaganda!!! against islam.

:wasalam:

Pardon? What is propaganda against Islam? The truth that Israel is terrorist state or what?

:confused:

Could you be kindly and explain your meaning more carefull?

American Muslim

12-04-2006, 09:10 PM

First, I take exception to the statement that the USA is a terrorist state. Has America suppressed other states? Undoubtably. Can't deny it as there are way too many historical examples. I truly thought that this website was aimed towards discussing ideas and issues concerning Islam, not a political popularity contest.

However, since this has come up, let me take a few moments. Before we go bashing America, let me say that America is an idea, a dream of freedom. This dream has turned decidely dark and dangerous the last few years; that is because of manipulation of the populace. It is hard to describe the absolute fury that rocked this country after 9/11.

I am not saying that other nations do not suffer. You have to be insane to believe seriously that the USA is a terrorist nation. If this nation truly was terrorist, don't you think that we would have unleashed a full retalitory strike? Have you never watched the old feeds of Hiroshima? Many in this country called for an immediate nuclear strike in the middle east. Just as Bush originally called it a crusade, there were some who took that literally.

There was never a vote on it. However, I would like to point out that a marginal (read fanatic) member of our lower house called for a cruise missile to be lobbed at the Qa'aba.

Most Americans don't have a clue what is done in their names overseas. The relationship between America and the nations in the middle east is dictated largely through two things: the support of Israel and the economics of oil.

The near total support of Israel is seen by many here to be a mistake. Three reasons for this support are:
1) Cold War holdover
2) guilt
3) religous

1) Cold War holdover:
During the cold war, Israel was used as a proxy for the US because of the percieved support of many of the Arab states by the former Soviet Union. The powers to be at that time saw containment of communism as the most important thing in the world. The Soviets sell Egypt a T-27, the US sells their enemy an Abrams. American policy makers at the time believed in the maxim that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

2) guilt:
Holocaust. Whether you readers hold the tenent that it didn't happen is irrelevant. America is largely a Christian country, and the actions of our nation during the 1930's and 40's were seen as sinful. It has been proven that America knew what was happening and did very little about it. When they came for the Gypsies I said nothing, because I wasn't a Gypsy...when they came for me there was no one to say anything.
It may just be rhetoric, but when Arab nations talk about killing every Jew in Palestine, or driving them into the sea to drown like dogs, American ears perk up.
Never again is heard often during talks about Jews.

3) religous:
Christian prophecy. The recreation of the state of Israel is seen as one of the major signs of yaw middeen. The rebuilding of Solomon's temple is the "super sign" if you will. Many Christian religous groups send beaucoup dollars to right wing extremist groups in the state of Israel. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that it happens. To these extremist Christians, anyone standing in the way of that is evil. Pure and simple.

Economics:
Oil. That's what the American interests in the middle east are. If it weren't for oil, you probably would see carpet bombing in Tehran. Sorry to say it, but it is largely a militarist government in place here. Many of you are Europeans. With those nations' history of imperalism in the middle east, do you think those nations really care what happens in that region? No, oil is what drives the relationship between west and middle east.

I apologize to you my brothers and sisters for going on as long as I have. I just got a little hot under the collar about the statements on this thread.

sister harb

12-04-2006, 09:24 PM

And I apologize but the topic is "ISRAEL is the biggest terrorist organization in the world "... not USA... or if you are thinking they are same???

aishamohamud

02-05-2007, 11:39 PM

:salam2: all we can do is blame oursevles to what is happening to our brothers and sisters in palestine united we stand and separated we fall the prophet <saw>said that there will be a group of people in my ummah who will remain victorious over their enemy and they will continue to do so until they are taken by the will of Allah and the sahaba asked him ya rasullalah who are they and he replied they are people from Jerusalem and the versininty of jerusalem. they are defending al aqsa may Allah take them to jannat al firdous ammen

Child of GOD

02-06-2007, 07:33 PM

Do you really know what goes on in Iran?,,,Iran also has nuclear powers with the help of the russians to boot

Abdul-Raheem

02-06-2007, 07:37 PM

Do you really know what goes on in Iran?,,,Iran also has nuclear powers with the help of the russians to boot

So do countless other countries. Not a valid reason to invade a country.

NewMuslim

02-06-2007, 07:39 PM

Do you really know what goes on in Iran?,,,Iran also has nuclear powers with the help of the russians to boot

I hate Iran. But, it shouldn't get invaded. It may abuse human rights of Sunnis, Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians (the ONLY "Muslim" country which does that), but it still shouldn't get invaded.

Invasion doesn't stop a government; it kills innocent people.

sister harb

02-06-2007, 08:04 PM

I hate Iran.

all we can do is blame oursevles to what is happening to our brothers and sisters in palestine...

Ironic... most of them whose really have helped by the issue of Palestine economic and political way, have been brothers from Iran and Hizb'Allah.

The Shia-majority Hizb'Allah (it has Sunni, Druz, and Christian fighters too) is the only Muslim Arab resistance group which has restored Arab honor. Iranians are not Arabs but also they have helped a lot while most of Arab Sunni leaders have sold their honour to the enemy.

But this was again "out-of-topic", right?

:SMILY286: to me...

sheerheart1

03-17-2007, 11:44 AM

:hijabi: ,

sheerheart1

03-17-2007, 11:53 AM

:hijabi: ,

Am sorry i deleted the rest :shymuslima1:

Seems to me they are trying to destroy islam and muslims all over the world ,
we get catorgarized as terrorists ................

when another country invades another who is the aggresor ????????????

They don't like us they just like to say they do because we are following the right path,
and it will be like this till the day of judgment also because we are the fastest growing relgion in the world Allah is showing people the truth in islam ,

where others like to live with thier lies

they think that they can bring us to our kness insha'allah this will never happen
no matter how much they try because we have something they don't have .

Faith in our Allah...........
Allah is on our side he will only give what we can bare ..........
may Almighty Allah protect the ummah no matter where they are in the world may he grant them the shade of his throne ameen:shymuslima1:

justoneofmillion

03-17-2007, 05:44 PM

the real problem is not the military "power "of the zionists or their allies the united satans the real issue in all this is that the leaders in the middle east have become cowards mushrik they fear "men" more than they fear Allah swt and the leaders are the first ones who are going to be judged according to the sunna of the prophet pbuh what are they going to say when they face Allah swt they will have no excuse !!!! that they let our brothers suffer this way but it is just a matter of time you know an italian news paper had this title during the war in libanon"i governi arabi governi di conigli`wich means bassically the arab goverments headed by rabbits i was talking to an american friend of mine last time while watching the news and eventhoug he is a non muslim....still !!!but he was as disgusted as i was by the behavior of the zionists and his gouverment his parents were russian refugees during world war 2 and was disgusted how certain jews always use the holocaust to justifie their actions and their policies when his father too suffered as a non jew! millions of jews have been rescued by muslims during their persecutions by the christians and they have been welcomed in spain in morocco,algeria tunisia, and even in turkey some muslims risked their lives to save jews from the naszis but the hypocrite behavior today makes it politically incorrect to talk about such things in their" wonderful free and independent media" but trust me this is going to change soon our trust our lives our death our prayers go to Allah the mighty alone and we will never knee down to no one else even if they exploded the whole world with their nuclear bombs or decided to leave the earth for mars or jupiter they will still find muslims there they have no where to go nowhere to escape nowhere to hide we will get them sooner or latertoofree our brothers and sisters and our land!!!!!!inschallah:SMILY346: :SMILY346: :SMILY346: :salah:

justoneofmillion

03-17-2007, 06:02 PM

Am sorry i deleted the rest :shymuslima1:

Seems to me they are trying to destroy islam and muslims all over the world ,
we get catorgarized as terrorists ................

when another country invades another who is the aggresor ????????????

They don't like us they just like to say they do because we are following the right path,
and it will be like this till the day of judgment also because we are the fastest growing relgion in the world Allah is showing people the truth in islam ,

where others like to live with thier lies

they think that they can bring us to our kness insha'allah this will never happen
no matter how much they try because we have something they don't have .

Faith in our Allah...........
Allah is on our side he will only give what we can bare ..........
may Almighty Allah protect the ummah no matter where they are in the world may he grant them the shade of his throne ameen:shymuslima1:

they are not destroying islam because it`s hopless for them to do so and they know it that`s why they use their media propagand and invent words of their own like "moderate muslims"and rubbish like that ok just try to see it this way Allah swt is just using them to guide us and unite us a couple of years ago i had never thought of being on a forum like this or felt thirsty to learn more about islam but when a saw that they were talking too bad about islam i just realised that it was too phony and remembered that i wasn`t brought up that way am an orphan i lost my parents a couple of years ago i loved the religion and practiced it but i didn`t really realise how powerfool how beautiful how big the message well may be i was too young still alhamdulilah i hade no one to guide me anymore but Allah swt did he awakend my counscioussness:salah: :salah: :salah: :SMILY346: :SMILY346:

Paki Idol

03-17-2007, 07:52 PM

:salam2:

There is no doubt that Israel is the largest agressor against the Muslims.How?Their every plan is aimed at eradication of Muslims.They are wiping out Muslims(and assisting others to do it) in captured areas like Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Kashmir etc.Their intelligence agencies are expert in carrying out false flag operations. These agencies cahlk out ways to kill, exterminate, defame, torture(physically and pshycologically) Muslims.They have decided to lower the influence of Islam(because of it's truth) on this world because Islam talks about Justice, Equality, abandoning of worldly things.They are trying to promote materialism in Muslim countries. Plus, propogating unislamic customs so that Muslims distance themselves from Islam.They are promotinh "Sufism" to replace "Jihadism" so that Muslims would not rise against their(Zionism's) evilness.They want interest, money, world to fulill their lusts but Islam stands in their way.The more stronger Islam gets, the lesser will be the corruption on Earth.They are scared by emergence of Islam.And that is the reason why they are carrying out propogandas against Islam and Muslims.But, then everything will ultimately lead to sucess of Islam and it's followers and those days are not far, Allah Willling!!!Unless we do not recognise the importance of to change situation of ours, we will never be successful in Islamic revival.

Aapa

03-17-2007, 09:19 PM

Salam,

I am susrprised that a person can state they are Muslim and say they hate Iran and support the United States at the same time. Please...read your American History. Please reread the Monroe Doctrine...what is the meaning of the expression..manifest destiny. Was that not the green light for hegemony?
On a very serious level the land that gave Muslims Rumi..you hate...

The support of Israel is not new news. America is the body of the financial plutocracy that is run by the Rothchilds and thier friends...America provides the muscle ..

I am still stuck...as a muslim we have to support our brothers and sisters in Islam....please do not attack each other on such a public forum...let us love and support each other..we pray and ask to remain on the path...we pray to remain on the same path as all muslims.

elmardi8

03-18-2007, 02:22 AM

Salam Alaikum. I was just interested in the last two that you wrote. And i wanted to also say that while people criticize islam and they hold islam responsible when a muslim does something bad, it is not right.That is stereotyping and the same for you to generalize and stereotype about Americans or Westerners. I am american and never have i thought or been apart of hurting a muslim or anyone of any culture for that matter. When i see when someone from another country or culture does something bad i do not blame their relgion or their culture, i blame them for their actions and blame shaitan. Just because our president does the things he does, doesnt mean we are responsible for it. We dont agree with it. I do feel for those people in the middle east who have lost their familes and friends and have to go through the things they do.

7) which country is involved in in doing massacers of muslims at large in the name of terrorism
8) which country sexuallay tortured its prisoners and abused their war time prisoners

now tell me brother which is this country

let me give you a one word answer

the answer is so simple and clear
its usa ( united states and america)

does this mean usa is a terrrorist
but you dare not call it aterrorist or else youy too will be dealt with tip of the gun

why is it that when u have time to call israel a terrorist it surely does not mean that i am in support of israel but listen and remeber that take a look at the western world arent they civilzed beast or arent they licensed terrorist.

make not any comment before you think ots right

when we muslime fight for freedom or our nation its called as terrorism but when they they do it it is called thefight for liberation

what if in the process they kill one lakh forty thousand muslims any how think before its late and act accordingly hope next time you write against america[/QUOTE]

elmardi8

03-18-2007, 02:28 AM

My comment was to yasser khan 1012's post but i messed up the quickreply. The bottom part is what he wrote.

Abdul Hasib

03-18-2007, 02:37 AM

Some people that are born in America think that their country is the strongest in the world and everything. They think that; Oh, if anyone (muslim as they would point out) try's to attack American soldiers like Iran, they think that Bush can get his lazy baboon's backside and literally "bomb" them.

We just need to keep our trust into Allah Subhannallahe Wata Ala and we shoukd make dua to remove the Bush Regime and also the Zionist Regime. And letr's make dua that Allah (SWA) can remove these Munafiq and apostate governments like Ramzan Kadyrov and the King "Abdullah" of Suadi, the Busharaff (or Pervez Musharaff).

May Allah curse these governments and any other ones that support Bush and Zionists, and may Allah remove the evil nations that are against muslims. Inshallah and Ameen.

Paki Idol

03-18-2007, 05:51 AM

:salam2:
For a long time,we've discussed about Israel and it's allies.During this time, we have been forgetting something i.e. the love and brotherhood that is lost not only for NonMuslims but also for fellow Muslims.There are misunderstand
-ings between the Muslims coming from different Nations, communities etc.Despite disagreements, we shouldn't express hatred or even let it dwell it in our hearts (Hatred is a disease) except when one feels hatred against evil.

saqlawi

03-18-2007, 02:11 PM

:salam2:
The hate itself is a disease indeed. When one sees oppression and injustice against his people, one must fight it. But fight it with logical action, not blind hatred.

"Oh brothers! Oh mujahideen and fighters! For this I call on you now and I call on you not to hate because hate does not leave space for a person to be fair. It blinds you and closes all doors of thinking. Hate prevents you from thinking straight and from making the right choices and avoiding the wrong. It blocks your vision and prevents you from seeing the variables in the mind of those who were thought of as enemies, including those people who had gone astray but have changed their direction and have taken the right path, the path of the noble people and the glorious nation"

-Saddam Hussein (translated from his final letter)

BGfromGB

03-18-2007, 07:19 PM

I'm tryin to submit a reply, but I'm told I cant. I have registered and I have logged on. What am I doing wrong

BGfromGB

03-18-2007, 10:25 PM

What is wrong with this website. definitely not user friendly. I want to post a comment but it wont allow me despite acceptance of registration and correct loggon. May have to go elsewhere

BGfromGB

03-18-2007, 10:39 PM

dna1987

03-18-2007, 10:54 PM

BGfromGB, I just skimmed over all the posts in the thread just now..your claim that "most" of the posts are anti-semitic doesn't seem to fit in. Plus, discussing Israel's crimes and "hating Jews" are different things. The posts here are not filled with blind hate. They are better described as "anti-criminal" posts. Salam.

Mabsoot

03-18-2007, 11:35 PM

I have read countless posts on this thread and mos if not all seem to be violently anti semitic.

A coin has 2 sides. A one sided coin does not exist.

The Jews are part of Gods creation, and whether we like it or not, The almighty made a covenant with them. There are abundant passages in the scriptures to verify this.

Its time we made peace with human mankind, That is gods law through the great books , the Koran and the Bible. The fact that the muslim fraternity want nothing more than to wipe Israel off the face of this earth is no more damming that what the Israelis are accused of.

Allah comes first. He is the supreme decider. And we all have to account to him. Jews included. Of that there is no doubt

Hi, Islam allows us to have peace with Jews and Judaism. Muslims have nothing against the Jewish people.

You are entirely correct to say that the Jews are God's creation. "Whether we like it or not", this is irrelevant.. we are all ONE Race, the Human Race. We are all created equal, whether we are Muslim, Christian Jewish, or even atheist. It is what is in our hearts, our beliefs and actions which differentiate ourselves.

I recommend that you read about Who Allah is, and how Muslims are following the same message that God gave to all the Prophets, from Adam, through to Soloman, David, Moses, Abraham Jesus and finally to Muhammad :saw:. i.e. the Message of Islam. Which is to worship Allah alone without associating any partner to him.

Learn About Allah, The One and Only God, The Creator and Sustainer of the universe. (http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2432)

Introductory Articles About Islam (http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=11)

Terrorism and the Oppression of Women Has Nothing to Do With True Islam. (http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63)

What Religion did Abraham Follow ? (http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67)

There is a lot of human Rights abuse in Palestine, where men, women and kids are targetted deliberately and killed, where the people are kept in perpetual state of fear and terror. Where they live in worst conditions families are split and travelling is difficult. There is high unemployment, problems with travelling (due to the 100s of checkpoints and miles of barbed wire topped Walls overlooked by watchtowers. Those watchtowers have shot children (in one case an unarmed school girl was shot around 14 times, point blank)

So you talk about 2 sides to a coin, when the Palestinians are a people who is occupied by one of the world's most sophisticated military regimes, which has billions of dollars in aid and military assistance from the USA (which has vetoed dozens of UN resolutions critical of Israel, and which has ignored and contravened countless International Laws and UN legislations.

Your talking about 2 sides of a coin is a kin to saying that the Hitler regime should be given a chance to express its views as to why they did what they did. . . or more recently South Africa and its Apartheid.

The Following is what Lawrence Boxall member of Jews for a Just Peace and a veteran of the anti-Apartheid struggle in South Africa had to say:

"On a purely emotional level, everything about the relationship between the Israeli Government and the Palestinian People reminds me so strongly of South Africa. When I first heard Netanyahu speaking my inner being felt as though I was listening to a South African Government Minister speaking in the 1970s. However, I think this is a similarity of outward appearances only. As vicious as the South African Apartheid regime was, I think that what Israel is currently doing to the Palestinians is manifestly worse. The purpose of Apartheid was never to rid the country of Blacks, nor was it to deprive them of all means of livelihood in the hope that they would disappear to Botswana or elsewhere. As much as Apartheid was an obscene afront to human dignity what Israel is doing beggars description. To remain quiet about this, particularly because I am not a victim, would render my life utterly worthless. I oppose Israel because I have no choice in the matter."

South Africa and Palestine (http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=7972)

-------

so to cut to the point, we have people on this website who were once Jewish, we have had Christians and Jewish people who have happily visited our website. The Prophet :saw: and his companions had good relations with Jewish people. Muslims have had a rich and good relationship with people of other faiths including Jewish community. It happens that the Jewish Golden Age, was infact under the Muslim Andalusia, where in Toledo they were even given their own Jewish Quarter, Rabbinical courts etc and who worked alongside Muslim scientists, mathematicians and those at the cutting edge of literature and philosophy.

Also, please remember that the Arabs (who only represent around 15-20% of total population of Muslims in the world) are semitic people.

There will be some people who say silly and stupid things about Jews or perhaps even their neighbours, we ignore them, we look to what Islam itself teaches. We should not judge a Religion or people by the actions of a few. - So a sensible Muslim does not judge Judaism and all Jews by the actions of the racist Zionists who occupy and terrorise the Palestinian, Lebanese, and Syrian people, and who steal Jordanian water!

I suggest that you watch the following Video, it is by Abdullah Schleifer. Schleifer served as NBC News radio correspondent and TV producer/reporter in the Middle East from 1970 to 1983. Initially based in Beirut, Schleifer was the NBC News Cairo bureau chief from 1974 to 1983. He was Jewish and he became Muslim many years ago.

The Negative Media Campaign against Muslims and Zionism, US Support for "Israel" (http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=937) By Abdullah Schleifer.

Thanks.

saqlawi

03-19-2007, 02:39 AM

How was anything antisemetic? I guess if Israel kills Palestinians and bulldoze their homes, we can't talk about it because that would be antisemitic. But if a Palestinian martyr kills Israeli soldiers, he is a terrorist right?

sugarbb

03-20-2007, 01:47 AM

The media is always potraying the Palestinians muslims as terrorists but who is the real terrorists ? Eventhough they use the media to potray the Palestinians as such, Everybody knows the truth. May Allah help our brothers & sisters & children of Palestine. It is amazing that Israel have nuclear weapon and yet America is after Syria & Iran. Let's see what they'll do with North Korea now (a non-muslim nation). Very interesting. Very Double Standard.

sugarbb

03-20-2007, 01:53 AM

this is about the government act not general public. So all muslim brothers & sisters from America & Israel, peace be upon you.

BGfromGB

03-21-2007, 11:10 PM

justoneofmillion

03-21-2007, 11:28 PM

islam is a semitic religion and arabic is a semitic language ! threre is no place in here for anti semitism we are talking about the policies of these nations not about the individuals so stop playing the victimes we had enough what`s happening in palestine has no justification! no excuse try to live one day in gaza city and then comment!!! this is not a racial context but a political one racism antisemitisme communisme nazisme are not the invention of the muslim allhamdulillah but "christians" or what remains of it!!!!!!

justoneofmillion

03-22-2007, 04:20 AM

After reading most of the posts above. I'm truly saddened. I do not wish to drag myself into this biased political quagmire, but all I can say is that a coin does not exist without 2 sides.

Let us not forget that the Jews, christians,muslims and other religions are all part of G-d's creation, and as human beings it is our duty according to G-d's commandments to love and embrace one another.

As Yeshua said " Let him who is without sin, cast the 1st stone"

Is there any one out there who can honestly do that? Yehshua pbuh said that to make it clear to the jews that no one is holy besides Allah swt and to make them understand that there is no saint or whatsoever who forgive sins and is worthy of being worshiped or that can intercied between the son of man and his creator the only judge some understood it and some didn`t!!!!

saqlawi

03-22-2007, 08:36 PM

I asked you a question. What here is "anti-semitic"? You didn't answer that.

Don't be throwing these terms and labels around without explanation.

justoneofmillion

03-23-2007, 12:50 AM

i would give you a book so that you can next time better argue on this subject! it`s called "HOW ISRAEL LOST" by RICHARD BEN CRAMER it won the pulizer price an got honorable critics from the new york times ,herald tribune,frankfurter allgemein zeitung it`s author is not a muslim but a jewish journalist and intellectual, who happend to have an objective and experienced view!!!! check it if you dare!!!!! peace

Paki Idol

03-25-2007, 08:38 AM

Well, the Zionists use "Anti Semitics" to label Anti Zionists as "terrorist sympathizers" (as per it's Anti Islamic propoganda) .
It's an excuse to spread hatred for crticiser's of Israel's terorrist activities.The minds of ppl are diverted to think that Israel suffers
everything while Muslims are the ones killing others brutally.This is
false.It is the Palestinians who are suffering, not Israel.It is Israel
who is doing injustice.Israel uses this word only to show the innocence
(which it never had) of itself and thus to create support for Israel
and hatred for Muslims.

BGfromGB

03-25-2007, 02:22 PM

BGfromGB

03-25-2007, 04:38 PM

Thanks for that. What I want to know is this. How can zionism be defined as being racist. I have looked up Wikipedia and it says nothing of the sort

justoneofmillion

03-25-2007, 07:11 PM

Where did you source that from. Its not in the scriptures.Nor is it in the Koran. When Yeshua said Let him (meaning everybody noy just the Jews) who is without sin (again not only the Jews), cast the first stone. This applies to all of usman am sorry i think you are missing the point here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"i have not been sent to non other than the lost sheep of the house of israel"i don`t have the exact number but i``ll get it next time inschallah!!! of cource it an universal must for monotheism to leave the final judgement to Allah swt again some understood it through god`s mercy with him sending the reminder(the quran) some others still worship the saints! and Allah swt knows best of whom is guided and not .

ps:nobody is without sin!!!!!!!!!!!! that is what i have been trying to tell you all the time! that`s why we pray for forgiveness and help that`s why the propehts themselves pbuthem all use to bown down on their knees asking for AllahSWT mercy and guidance! if anybody was to be without sin why would he pray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! may Allah guide you and soften your heart and our hearts

peace

BGfromGB

03-25-2007, 07:53 PM

No sir I disagree. You being a muslim, your views will obviously be anti semitic and pro arab/palestinian. Myself and not being Jewish nor christian nor muslim will have views which are diametrically opposite to yours. That sir, is the tragedy of the situation. So lets agree to disagree. Otherwise this whole thread becomes a slanging match and not an intelligent debate.
But one thing is for sure. G-d made an everlasting covenant with the Jews. He promised to to bring them back to a land flowing with milk and honey. This is mentioned numerous times in the scriptures.
Now before you label me being anti muslim. I'm not. Nor am I a Jew. I believe in what the scriptures say. I also believe in what the Koran says. I have no reason to believe otherwise. If I did I would be a hypocrite.
I am therefore commanded by the Almighty to love my neighbour, to turn the other cheek, and to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Its peace and understanding that i'm interested in Thank you sir.

justoneofmillion

03-25-2007, 08:38 PM

i my view was anti semetic i would be against my own people in faith,remember that it was a political context that we were examining not a racial everybody is intrested in peace saying that you believe in all the scriptures and not seing the differences that are obvious in these scriptures is called being picky everybody loves peace but using the word peace in such a context of discussion is trying to cover a messy bed with a cover of satin! it is trying to be smart and outstanding but remember that if you really believe in the scriptures and there is one thing that they certainly have in commun it is called :HUMILITY and in order to achieve a certain degree of loving your brother as much as you love yourself you need humility am observing a little emphasis between what you say you want to achieve and i have no choice but to give you the benefit of the doubt(niya) it is indeed wonderful! but what you say at the same time misses that HUMILITY it is called as i said before trying to be smart ,outstanding and look good in the mirror! you got to be practical "madam" practical practical and practical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

peace be with you

BGfromGB

03-25-2007, 08:49 PM

justoneofmillion

03-25-2007, 09:11 PM

Lets be reasonable here shall we. There are a lot of things that can be said against Israel. But to say the Jews are in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kashmir etc. That they are promoting materialism in muslim countries and propagating unislamic customs. All I am asking is to be fair to all and sundry. By denigrating a part of Allah's creation just because they are Jews is nothing but racism and is totally contrary to the teachings of Islam
By all means lets criticise where criticism is due. But to make such accusations without any foundation is really absurd and does nothing to foster harmony in humanity.am glade that Allah finally answered my prayer hE was indeed quick this time in carressing your ego!! so tell me what can be said in your view against the policies of isreal?(am just quoting you!)come in don`t be shy the door is always open!promise i won`t reject you, i won`t;) by god

BGfromGB

03-29-2007, 10:52 PM

man am sorry i think you are missing the point here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"i have not been sent to non other than the lost sheep of the house of israel"i don`t have the exact number but i``ll get it next time inschallah!!! of cource it an universal must for monotheism to leave the final judgement to Allah swt again some understood it through god`s mercy with him sending the reminder(the quran) some others still worship the saints! and Allah swt knows best of whom is guided and not .

ps:nobody is without sin!!!!!!!!!!!! that is what i have been trying to tell you all the time! that`s why we pray for forgiveness and help that`s why the propehts themselves pbuthem all use to bown down on their knees asking for AllahSWT mercy and guidance! if anybody was to be without sin why would he pray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! may Allah guide you and soften your heart and our hearts

peace No sir I'm not missing the point.
With due respect to you, its you that is going round and round in circles and not willing to find the point.
Surely you can understand what YESHUA is alluding to. No one is perfect and we are not in a position to judge each other - we're all sinful. YESHUA ain't. He is the only person in a position to throw stones. Not us.

justoneofmillion

03-30-2007, 12:21 AM

No sir I'm not missing the point.
With due respect to you, its you that is going round and round in circles and not willing to find the point.
Surely you can understand what YESHUA is alluding to. No one is perfect and we are not in a position to judge each other - we're all sinful. YESHUA ain't. He is the only person in a position to throw stones. Not us. you can`t even answer a simple question and you wanna go through theologie speculations trust me it would be too easy to prove you from your own 27 plus different bibles that that you are wrong i would rather let your own theologians do it JOHN HICK ,PAUL SChwarznau,hans küng and gerd lüdemann...............etc read some of them for you own information and you will be surprised!of what`s being hidden from you!but just answer the question right now use your fantasy now that it`s right on track!

INTHE NAME OF ALLAH THRE BENEFICIENT THE MERCIFUL

"WOE TO THOSE WHO WRITE THE SCRIPTURES WITH THEIR OWN HANDS AND THEN SAY"THIS IS FROM ALLAH"THAT THEY MAY TAKE IT FOR A PALTRY PRICE;WOE TO THEM FOR WHAT THEIR HAND HAVE WRITTEN AND WOE TO THEM OF WHAT THEY EARN"sura baquara 2:79

IN THE NAME OF ALLAH THE BENEFICIENT THE MERCIFUL

"OH PEOPLE OF THE BOOK HERE HATH COME TO YO OUR MESSENGER REVEALING TO YOU MUCH THAT YE USED TO HIDE IN THE BOOK PASSING OVER MUCH(THAT IS UNNECESSARY)THERE HAS COME TO YOU A (NEW) LIGHT FROM ALLAH A LIGHT AND A PERSPICUOS BOOK!"SURA MAIDA 5:15

IN THE NAME OF ALLAH THE BENEFICIENT THE MERCIFUL

" OH PEOPLE OF THE BOOK! NOW HATH COME INTO YOU OUR MESSENGER
AFTER THE BREAK OUR MESSENGERS; LEST YE SHOULD SAY"THERE CAME UNTO US NO BRINGER OF GLAD TIDING AND A WARNER...."SURA MAIDA 5:19

IN THE NAME OF ALLAH THE BENEFICIENT THE MERCIFUL

" AND IF YOU WERE IN DOUBT TO WHAT WE HAVE REVEALD TO OUR SERVANT THEN BRING FORTH A BOOK LIKE THE QURAN AND ASK YOUR WITNESSES TO PROVE IT CONTRARY TO ALLAH IF WERE TRUTHFUL, IF YOU CAN NOT AND YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE;SO BEWARE OF THE FIRE THAT IS PREPARED FOR THE BLASPHEMERS.."SURA BAQAR 2:23

ps: the message is clear and simple don`t loose your time in vain talks and lower down that self destructive ego search and ask in a constructive manner instead of commenting all the time do it for yourself for god`s sake !!how much more love do you want me to show you man!!!!!! you can train on somebody else !!!and you"ll have to wake up early for that very very very early ;)
www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2202
www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2210&highlights=crucifixtion+crucifiction

SINDBAD:salah:

wassalam sindbad:salah:

justoneofmillion

03-30-2007, 03:00 AM

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-7645977768965605060&q=was+christ+really+crucified

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-2743274210637656975&q=was+christ+really+crucified

Come2Quran

03-30-2007, 04:15 AM

You know
1/3 of world is Muslim, and we let all what happen to us. we are most in population yet we are still easy target to be blamed for anything.
I don't know how to explain all what i feel but the reason why we are behind everything is education.
education brings knowledge and knowledge brings wealth and power.
when Allah first sent his wahi to Nabi Kareem (PBUH), First word of the beginning of the conversation was IQRA.
Read.
Basic principles of Islam like Brotherhood, Unity, Human Rights. are easily ignored today.
We must know what we are here for and what are we suppose to do for a change for good.
May Allah show us the right way.

hussain.mahammed

04-01-2007, 07:47 AM

As salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wabrakatuhu

First they arrest Moh'd Saleh, a Plastinian aged 23. So far nothing is wrong with the picture!!

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9249/image001va7.th.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image001va7.jpg)

Then they pin Moh'd on the floor suspecting he had bombs attached to him. Still nothing out of the ordinary?

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3303/image002rz2.th.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image002rz2.jpg)

They have him on the floor still, and they try to question a second Plastinian on the scence. They seem to have definitly overpowerd him and have full control over the suitation.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3527/image003cj7.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image003cj7.jpg)

That's not enough? OK!! Now they have to strip him to make sure he doesn't really have any bombs on him. AS we can see he is almost naked on the floor, he is obviously overpowerd and unarmed, there is no sign of a bomb or any resistant.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2715/image004df8.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image004df8.jpg)

The picture speaks for itself !?!

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5029/image005ru8.th.jpg (http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image005ru8.jpg)

The least you can while sitting in the comfort of your home is forward this file to as many people as possible espically westerns so they can have a glimse of what Palestinians go through!!

apocalypse77

04-04-2007, 04:50 AM

bottomline to me it seems that in the eyes of the jews the muslims will forever be seen as filths to them just because were not the "chosen" pple

Paki Idol

04-05-2007, 09:22 AM

Salam!
I pray that somehow we unite and face these injustices, evils, problems etc.I wonder that being in such large numbers, why do we ALWAYS have to be blamed and receive the "dirty looks"?The point is that Jews are so much less than us in number yet they exceed us in power(political and military etc.), unity, education etc. Once Carl Jung went to an African country.He noticed the severity of famine, hunger and poverty there and gave a serious thinking about where could God's help be found there and then suddenly his heart and mind gave him the answer: "God isn't looking for alms, He is looking for action". May Allah help us to recover and avoid our previous mistakes and that we suceed in this world and hereafter, Ameen! Today, not only the Muslims but every other single human is looking forward for someone to put an end to the corruption, evil and injustices we all suffer from. So, we should start depending on our ourselves and believe in the Help of Allah and put our trust in Him, only and not depend nor give in to for the corrupters or trangressors or rather.I believe we can attain the past and the lost glory of ours, InshAllah if we cling to Islam and do whatever we can to stop evil spreading. throughout the world.

al-fajr

04-05-2007, 09:38 AM

it saddens me that as muslims somebody else is always to blame yes the israel did this and that,i consider it one of the most amazing coups that the palestinian struggle has emerged as almost a tenet of islam......

i dont understand ure comment, i think muslims would be the first to blame the muslim states ie saudi/pakistan/syria/jordan for not doing enough for this cause and muslims are the ones who experiance the tyranny under these peoples rule first hand eg uzbekistan.

and isnt the palestinian struggle intrinsically islamic as they want to build their temple on our third most holiest site?

jama

04-06-2007, 08:06 AM

salam aliakum warahmatulaah wabarakatu
you are right, that is exactly right, and this questions should be raised around the world especailly muslim countries. it's ashame that all the muslim countries are watching our brothers and sisters being killed every day especially Palestine. muslim leaders today are weak, but they need to stand up for one other and help our muslim people. what happend to our brotherhood.
we make duas for them and may allah help them.
please let me know if this thread hurt someone, if that so i apologies.
alahu akbar.

justoneofmillion

04-06-2007, 07:09 PM

assalamu aleikum, just a reminder!so you all don´t löose your time in vain talks with the zionists and their supporters if you know what i mean1

wassalam

BGfromGB

04-06-2007, 07:37 PM

am glade that Allah finally answered my prayer hE was indeed quick this time in carressing your ego!! so tell me what can be said in your view against the policies of isreal?(am just quoting you!)come in don`t be shy the door is always open!promise i won`t reject you, i won`t;) by god the only policies of Israel are that they wish to be left alone and to get on with their lives whweras Hamas and others want them wiped off the face of this earth.
The question is, what does Allah want of them. If he is merciful and loving, then surely do does NOT want a part of his creation wiped off the face of this earth. Why did HE create them in the 1st place then?

justoneofmillion

04-06-2007, 08:14 PM

Happy 2BA Muslim

04-06-2007, 08:31 PM

the only policies of Israel are that they wish to be left alone and to get on with their lives whweras Hamas and others want them wiped off the face of this earth.
The question is, what does Allah want of them. If he is merciful and loving, then surely do does NOT want a part of his creation wiped off the face of this earth. Why did HE create them in the 1st place then?

Hamas and others do not want the jews wiped off the face of this earth. That is a misconception, but I guess that is why you are here :) . Muslims lived with jews peacefully since the time of the Prophet peace be upon Him.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9474&highlight=muslims+jews+living

And some more facts: (no racism here)

The Jews do not have any stake in al-Quds, because even though they may have lived in the land previously, that land now belongs to the Muslims from two points of view:

1. The Jews disbelieved and are no longer following the religion of the believers among the Children of Israel who followed and supported Moosa and ‘Eesaa (peace be upon them).

2. We Muslims have more right to it than them, because land does not belong to the people who lived there first, but to those who establish the laws of Allaah therein. Allaah created the land, and He created people to worship Allaah in the land and to establish therein the religion, laws and rulings of Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… Verily, the earth is Allaah’s. He gives it as a heritage to whom He wills of His slaves; and the (blessed) end is for the Muttaqoon (the pious).” [al-A’raaf 7:128]

Hence if some Arabs came who were not followers of Islam and they ruled the land with kufr, they would have to be fought until they submitted to the rule of Islam or were killed.

It is not the matter of race or ethnicity; it is the matter of Tawheed and Islam.

Here it is useful to quote the words of one of the researchers:

“History tells us that the first people to settle in Palestine were the Canaanites, six thousand years BCE. They were an Arab tribe who came to Palestine from the Arabian Peninsula, and after their arrival, Palestine was named after them [i.e., Canaan].”

(al-Suhyooniyyah, Nash’atuhaa, Tanzeemaatuhaa, In*!*!*!*!atuhaa, by Ahmad al-‘Awadi, p. 7).

“As for the Jews, the first time they entered Palestine was approximately six hundred years after Ibraheem had entered the land, i.e., they entered it approximately 1400 years BCE. So the Canaanites entered Palestine and lived there approximately 4500 years before the Jews.”

(Ibid., p. 8)

Hence it is clear that the Jews have no right to the land, whether according to religious law or in terms of who lived there first and possessed the land. They are aggressors who are seizing the land by force. We ask Allaah to rid Bayt al-Maqdis of them sooner rather than later, for He is Able to do that and He is Most Generous in answering. Praise be to Allaah, the Lord of the Worlds.

Oem Soufiane

04-07-2007, 01:07 PM

Bluegazer

04-07-2007, 04:43 PM

Hello BGfromGB,

You said the following on post #54 on this thread:

Surely you can understand what YESHUA is alluding to. No one is perfect and we are not in a position to judge each other - we're all sinful. YESHUA ain't. He is the only person in a position to throw stones. Not us.

Were you referring to the Story of the Adulteress in John 7:53-8:11 in the Bible?

BGfromGB

04-09-2007, 11:48 AM

Hello BGfromGB,

You said the following on post #54 on this thread:

Were you referring to the Story of the Adulteress in John 7:53-8:11 in the Bible? No sir, I am not referring tomthat verse.
YESHUA as the son of the ELOHIM, was and IS totally without sin. There is none like him, not even Mohammed. Human mankind is full of sin. We will always sin and continue to sin until we die. I'm no exception. That fact that I continue to listen to classical symphonic music makes me a sinner over and over again. And yet I will not stop doing so. (I will be accountable to YHWH on that issue not the religious scholars) and because I am a sinner I am not in a position to judge other people. Thank you sir.

salmanzaid

04-09-2007, 12:33 PM

Asalamu alaykum Brothers & Sisters,

I've got an unusual story to tell and I hope the moderators will forgive me for being slightly off topic. I've commented before, but I can't believe that there
are some Muslims who actually support 'Israel' - unbelievable !!!

I was interested in various expressions of faith in high school, and I visited a few places.

Once I visited a Jewish bookshop - and there was an old Jewish man there. My honest recollection is that he was a very angry & obsessed person, who started raving & ranting about the holocaust/ww2/israel ect'.
So from this, I can understand easily - how those who were persecuted, became the persecutors. They were angry, afraid and wanted their own piece of real estate to feel safe in.

Another time I summoned up enough courage to visit a synagogue.
The ceremony was interesting, they paraded around the room with the torah, honoring it as God's word. The text to be read for the day, just happened to be the one in deut' about homosexuality. Then a female Rabbi gave the lecture. To my absolute astonishment and bewilderment, she said that homosexuality was no sin. And that ended my interest in Judaism, full stop.

My view is ... (1) that the Jews of today - are not the same people mentioned in the torah. I don't believe they are even descended from them ( except maybe a rare few ). They are just a very mixed bunch of modern people who decided to call themselves Jews, either recently or many generations back.
I do not believe they have any moral right to the land, just because of whatever the torah may say.
(2) It is an absolutely historical fact, that the land of palestine was stolen from the people who lived there in the most brutal & violent manner.
If you don't believe me, then you are blind or just plain ignorant.
(3) Jerusalem is a holy city to muslims, therefore it is of importance to us to retain it within the possesion of the muslims. Inshallah, it will be returned to the Palestinian people within my lifetime - please let me see it Lord !

From what I have read, many poor jewish people did not even want to go to Palestine, but they did so because of the influence of the zioinsts. It was a cold-blooded, deliberate program to create a modern specuation called 'israel'.

And why ?
a) America wanted a rottweiler ( a fierce type of dog ) in the middle east to keep an eye on the arabs & the oil wells(divide & conquer).
b) It was a gift to the jews for supporting the war.
c) I also think it was in revenge for the Palestinian mufti supporting Hitler
( but I'm willing to bet the mufti was only trying to protect his own country,
and was ignorant of Hitler's real beliefs ... that untimately arabs would be expended & eliminated after the jews ).

There are many good books, videos, phamphets, pdfs ect' - which one can read about how the Palestinians experianced ( & still are ) ethnic cleansing.
Any muslims who supports the modern speculation called 'Israel' -well I'd seriously have to doubt his sanity and his loyalty.
There are even a small number of Rabbis who are anti-zionist, due to what it says in torah / talmud.

Nobody should feel sorry for the zionists/israelis, we should be saving up our pocket money so we can buy more rocket launchers for the Palestinians !
I have no moral problem whatsoever with openly supporting the Palestinian struggle to regain their country, their soverignty, their religious freedom, their dignity.

And we can also mention Iraq, Lebanon, Afganistan ... so many other countries. What is it really all about ? Oil, Oil, Oil, Oil, Oil !

OK, forgive me for my excessive posting. I'll rest for a while.

Salman:SMILY82:

justoneofmillion

04-09-2007, 12:44 PM

No sir, I am not referring tomthat verse.
YESHUA as the son of the ELOHIM, was and IS totally without sin. There is none like him, not even Mohammed. Human mankind is full of sin. We will always sin and continue to sin until we die. I'm no exception. That fact that I continue to listen to classical symphonic music makes me a sinner over and over again. And yet I will not stop doing so. (I will be accountable to YHWH on that issue not the religious scholars) and because I am a sinner I am not in a position to judge other people. Thank you sir.hi dear friend,first of all yeshua pbuh as you said use to say "Allah"or "Eloh" when refering to god, not yahve and not jehova !
here is the proof:http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10526

second :dear friend this is a political section and i hope you won`t mind if we leave it there,you can believe worship whom ever you want DIONISIS;OSIRIS,BUDDAH THE POPE ,BOB MARLEY OR SANTA CLAUSE...it is you choice and as you said you and you alone will be held accountable for your deeds! peace wish you the best:)

wa aleikum

SINDBAD

al-fajr

04-09-2007, 12:50 PM

"I also think it was in revenge for the Palestinian mufti supporting Hitler
( but I'm willing to bet the mufti was only trying to protect his own country,
and was ignorant of Hitler's real beliefs ... that untimately arabs would be expended & eliminated after the jews )."

:salam2:
absolutely, because Hitler and Mufti Haj Emin had opposite intentions....Emin wanted to put a stop to the Zionist influx to palestine (begun much earlier than the official Nakba date of 1948, by Theodore Hurzle) but Hitler wanted the Jews out of Germany/Poland/Czechoslavakia (wherever he wanted 'lebensraum' for his aryan race) and saw Palestine as a possible place where he could send them all, which is why Adolf Eichmann visited Jerusalem time and again because he was minister of emmigration in the 3rd Reich, Mufti Emin sought hitlers help but nothing whatsoever came of it but the pictures of emin and hitler are used constantly by israels supporters to defame Muslims saying we're equivalent to hitler in our rabid anti-semitism!! craaaazyyyyy:girl3:

:wasalam:

BGfromGB

04-09-2007, 01:57 PM

excuse me, me as an ex christian, non arab can still see what israel is doing, please do not state that they want to be left alone, Who needs to leave who alone, watch this please, all of the film and then react if you will inshallah.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49&page=2

streaming didn't work.. The whole world has seen and heard these stories time and time again. Some are legit. Some aren't.
That was not the full question. Half of it.
Now would you care to answer the rest about HAMAS and others avowed intention to wipe Israel off the face of this earth?

justoneofmillion

04-09-2007, 02:18 PM

answer the question please quote"there is a lot that can be said against israel" if you want to keep the discussion going it is quite impolite to answer a question by a question, it underminds the thought of the one who asked it and confuses the one that has failed to answer to it and takes him out of the main focus.so please be kind and answer.ok

and then define please who are semitic people where they come from what language they speak and why they are called semites?because you seem to know more than all of us.it´s amazing i must admit i was quit a bit ignorant in the matter!!!!
#
last question do you know who NICCOLO MACHIAVELLI was?.....sorry don`t worry about it stay focused please you are always running away .........don´t loose your own traces you may never see and never find the way back!wish you the best.

regards

wa aleikum what you wish for yourself should be the same that you would wish for others that`s timless so answer my question first and your questions will be answered inschallah bring them all!

regards
SINDBAD

Oem Soufiane

04-09-2007, 03:10 PM

The whole world has seen and heard these stories time and time again. Some are legit. Some aren't.
That was not the full question. Half of it.
Now would you care to answer the rest about HAMAS and others avowed intention to wipe Israel off the face of this earth?

I don't speak for hamas, i speak for MYSELF and my brothers and sisters in palestine who are opressed by the zionists, what do you think, their stories aren't true and from the israelies they are. Watch the movie and you'll see how people are being treated. If nobody will stand up for them except for hamas, what do you think, they vote for them. The zionist friends from usa do not agree with the peoples choice and make sure palestine doesn't get money anymore, how much of an opressor can you be. Israel is not crying when palestina will be wiped of the card, well, the people, they only care about the ground. And same way to, i don't care if israel is of the map. It's my oppinion, not the opinion of all muslims, i don't claim it is in the quran. I WONT CRY FOR ISRAEL.

sister harb

04-09-2007, 04:23 PM

Happy 2BA Muslim

04-09-2007, 04:32 PM

BGfromGB, this is for you again, because it seems you didn`t read it well the first time (remember, you are here to learn about Islam):

the only policies of Israel are that they wish to be left alone and to get on with their lives whweras Hamas and others want them wiped off the face of this earth.
The question is, what does Allah want of them. If he is merciful and loving, then surely do does NOT want a part of his creation wiped off the face of this earth. Why did HE create them in the 1st place then?

Hamas and others do not want the jews wiped off the face of this earth. That is a misconception, but I guess that is why you are here :) . Muslims lived with jews peacefully since the time of the Prophet peace be upon Him.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9474&highlight=muslims+jews+living

And some more facts: (no racism here)

The Jews do not have any stake in al-Quds, because even though they may have lived in the land previously, that land now belongs to the Muslims from two points of view:

1. The Jews disbelieved and are no longer following the religion of the believers among the Children of Israel who followed and supported Moosa and ‘Eesaa (peace be upon them).

2. We Muslims have more right to it than them, because land does not belong to the people who lived there first, but to those who establish the laws of Allaah therein. Allaah created the land, and He created people to worship Allaah in the land and to establish therein the religion, laws and rulings of Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… Verily, the earth is Allaah’s. He gives it as a heritage to whom He wills of His slaves; and the (blessed) end is for the Muttaqoon (the pious).” [al-A’raaf 7:128]

Hence if some Arabs came who were not followers of Islam and they ruled the land with kufr, they would have to be fought until they submitted to the rule of Islam or were killed.

It is not the matter of race or ethnicity; it is the matter of Tawheed and Islam.

Here it is useful to quote the words of one of the researchers:

“History tells us that the first people to settle in Palestine were the Canaanites, six thousand years BCE. They were an Arab tribe who came to Palestine from the Arabian Peninsula, and after their arrival, Palestine was named after them [i.e., Canaan].”

(al-Suhyooniyyah, Nash’atuhaa, Tanzeemaatuhaa, In*!*!*!*!atuhaa, by Ahmad al-‘Awadi, p. 7).

“As for the Jews, the first time they entered Palestine was approximately six hundred years after Ibraheem had entered the land, i.e., they entered it approximately 1400 years BCE. So the Canaanites entered Palestine and lived there approximately 4500 years before the Jews.”

(Ibid., p. 8)

Hence it is clear that the Jews have no right to the land, whether according to religious law or in terms of who lived there first and possessed the land. They are aggressors who are seizing the land by force. We ask Allaah to rid Bayt al-Maqdis of them sooner rather than later, for He is Able to do that and He is Most Generous in answering. Praise be to Allaah, the Lord of the Worlds.

And just in case you bring up the scriptures talk again, here is our (Muslims) stance on it:

It is not permissible to obtain any of the previous scriptures which came before the Qur’aan, such as the Injeel (Gospel or New Testament), Tawraat (Torah or Old Testament) and others, for two reasons.

The first reason is that anything in them that is beneficial has been explained by Allaah in the Qur’aan.

The second reason is that the Qur’aan frees us from any need for these books. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is He Who has sent down the Book (the Qur’aan) to you (Muhammad) with truth, confirming what came before it [Aal ‘Imraan 3:3]

“And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad) the Book (this Qur’aan) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohaymin (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures). So judge among them by what Allaah has revealed [al-Maa’idah 5:48]

So whatever good may be in the previous books is to be found in the Qur’aan. So there is no need to look elsewhere.

Moreover, the Injeel (Gospel) that is existent today is distorted. The evidence for that is the fact that there are four Gospels which contradict one another; there is no one Gospel which can be relied upon.

But the seeker of knowledge who has sufficient knowledge to be able to tell truth from falsehood, may be allowed to read (the previous scriptures) in order to refute the falsehood found therein or to leave the followers of the scriptures with no excuse for not knowing that they are false.

Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Rasaa’il Fadeelat al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him), vol. 1, p. 32-33

So please don`t mention the scriptures again. :astag:

salmanzaid

04-10-2007, 09:58 AM

absolutely, because Hitler and Mufti Haj Emin had opposite intentions....Emin wanted to put a stop to the Zionist influx to palestine (begun much earlier than the official Nakba date of 1948, by Theodore Hurzle) but Hitler wanted the Jews out of Germany/Poland/Czechoslavakia (wherever he wanted 'lebensraum' for his aryan race) and saw Palestine as a possible place where he could send them all, which is why Adolf Eichmann visited Jerusalem time and again because he was minister of emmigration in the 3rd Reich, Mufti Emin sought hitlers help but nothing whatsoever came of it but the pictures of emin and hitler are used constantly by israels supporters to defame Muslims saying we're equivalent to hitler in our [I]rabid anti-semitism!! craaaazyyyyy:girl3:
:wasalam:

Thanks for the clarification !
The pro-zionist videos appear to be saying that Hitler & the Mufti were best friends ( it is part of a pro-zionist movie coming out soon I believe ).
At the moment I am feeling a lot of anxiety & depression regarding the world situation and I know that I should trust Allah more.
I watched a documentary about what happened in Gujarat, India 2001.
Thats a good suggestion of how low people will stoop when they are afraid of us.

BGfromGB

04-10-2007, 10:18 AM

BGfromGB

04-10-2007, 11:15 AM

answer the question please quote"there is a lot that can be said against israel" if you want to keep the discussion going it is quite impolite to answer a question by a question, it underminds the thought of the one who asked it and confuses the one that has failed to answer to it and takes him out of the main focus.so please be kind and answer.ok

and then define please who are semitic people where they come from what language they speak and why they are called semites?because you seem to know more than all of us.it´s amazing i must admit i was quit a bit ignorant in the matter!!!!
#
last question do you know who NICCOLO MACHIAVELLI was?.....sorry don`t worry about it stay focused please you are always running away .........don´t loose your own traces you may never see and never find the way back!wish you the best.

regards

wa aleikum I digress a bit, but I think it was you where I commended you for being so talented in music and which I asked you some pertinent questions about these gifts given to you by Allah. Am I correct? If yes, then likewise why was it not polite of you to have answered my question.
If it was not you, I withdraw my statement above.
Now about your question. I am not an historian. I am merely generalising from what I hear and see what is on the news. No harm in that is there?

BGfromGB

04-10-2007, 12:18 PM

[QUOTE=Happy 2BA Muslim;60876]Hamas and others do not want the jews wiped off the face of this earth. That is a misconception, but I guess that is why you are here :) . Muslims lived with jews peacefully since the time of the Prophet peace be upon Him.

The Hamas charter beginning with Article 6 tells me otherwise. Also are you telling me that Allah when he made an everlasting covenant would now see fit to break it? What kind of God is that?

ibn azem

04-10-2007, 12:34 PM

BG,

I kindly advise you to be careful with your sarcastic and unthoughtful questions!
When you ask a question then in a decent manner!
What kind of God is that?what sort of question is that?!
That is not very nice!
To your literal question, here you can learn who Allaah swt is:

Who Is Allah? (http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2432)
What is a Muslim? (http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2426)

Because a muslim does not know how to present his point you don't have to get naughty!
Please keep your decency as a person if not as a believer!

BGfromGB

04-10-2007, 01:17 PM

BG,

I kindly advise you to be careful with your sarcastic and unthoughtful questions!
When you ask a question then in a decent manner!
what sort of question is that?!
That is not very nice!
To your literal question, here you can learn who Allaah swt is:

Who Is Allah? (http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2432)
What is a Muslim? (http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2426)

Because a muslim does not know how to present his point you don't have to get naughty!
Please keep your decency as a person if not as a believer!
Please accept my apologies. What I'm trying to say is that noway can G-d break a promise. He never has and never will.That's what I learnt as a christian and I'm sure its the same with Islam. A promise is a promise is a promise

Bluegazer

04-10-2007, 02:04 PM

Hello BGfromGB,

I apologise for bringing up this point again, but it seems I didn't make myself clear in the question I asked you on post #68 on this thread. I will ask the question again, and this time I will colour the phrase that I want to focus on in red:

You said the following on post #54 on this thread:

Surely you can understand what YESHUA is alluding to. No one is perfect and we are not in a position to judge each other - we're all sinful. YESHUA ain't. He is the only person in a position to throw stones. Not us.

In post #69 -after quoting my question- you replied as follows:

No sir, I am not referring tomthat verse.
YESHUA as the son of the ELOHIM, was and IS totally without sin. There is none like him, not even Mohammed. Human mankind is full of sin. We will always sin and continue to sin until we die. I'm no exception. That fact that I continue to listen to classical symphonic music makes me a sinner over and over again. And yet I will not stop doing so. (I will be accountable to YHWH on that issue not the religious scholars) and because I am a sinner I am not in a position to judge other people. Thank you sir.

I will rephrase my question again:

By the phrase "we're all sinful. YESHUA ain't. He is the only person in a position to throw stones", were you alluding to the following verses of the Bible?:

They said this to test him, so that they could have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with his finger. But when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

John 8:6-7 [New American Bible]

I would be grateful for your answer.

Best regards,

Bluegazer

ibn azem

04-10-2007, 02:14 PM

Please accept my apologies. What I'm trying to say is that noway can G-d break a promise. He never has and never will.That's what I learnt as a christian and I'm sure its the same with Islam. A promise is a promise is a promise
You should apologise to your Creator, and sincerely seek His guidance if you want to be happy and find the True Path. We believe and worship the One Creator alone, you want to call Him God we call Him Allah: الله Allah is the proper name in Arabic for The One and Only God, The Creator and Sustainer of the universe. It is used by the Arab Christians and Jews for the God (Eloh-im in Hebrew; 'Allaha' in Aramaic, the mother tongue of Jesus, pbuh). The word Allah does not have a plural or gender. Allah does not have any associate or partner, and He does not beget nor was He begotten.

And Allah swt breaks His promise never - though I am not relating this answer to this topic in this thread, because I have not been involved in its discussion.

Just one of many Ayahs (Verses) where Allah makes that clear:

Our Lord! Verily, it is You Who will gather mankind together on the Day about which there is no doubt. Verily, Allâh never breaks His Promise". Chapter: Al-'Imran (3) Verse #: 9

BGfromGB

04-10-2007, 06:00 PM

Hello BGfromGB,

I apologise for bringing up this point again, but it seems I didn't make myself clear in the question I asked you on post #68 on this thread. I will ask the question again, and this time I will colour the phrase that I want to focus on in red:

You said the following on post #54 on this thread:

In post #69 -after quoting my question- you replied as follows:

I will rephrase my question again:

By the phrase "we're all sinful. YESHUA ain't. He is the only person in a position to throw stones", were you alluding to the following verses of the Bible?:

John 8:6-7 [New American Bible]

I would be grateful for your answer.

Best regards,

Bluegazer Hi there my good friend. I'm certainly not a scholar nor am I particularly versed with the scriptures. I'll try my best so here goes.
John 8:6-7 To understand the full context I believe its important to read at least from verse 3 right up to verse 10
Vs 3 "The teachers of the law and the Phariseesbrought in a woman caught in adultry...
This sin cannot be committed alone, so the question arises as to why only 1 offender was brought. So obviously this incident was set up to trap YESHUA.
Vs 4 and said to Yeshua " Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the law Moses commanded us to stone such women.
being caught in the act . This compromising circumstance was not sufficient evidence as Jewish laws require witnesses
So they altered the law a little. The manner of executioonwas not prescribed unless the woman was a betrothed virgin. further, the law required the execution of both parties, not just the women.
[B]Vs 6-8.The question was used as a trap. The Romans did not allow the Jews to carry out the death sentence. sO IF yeshua had to stone her he could have been in conflict with the Romans.If he told them not to stone her, he could have been accused of not supporting the law.
By writing on the ground is symbolic that the tablets were inscribed in stone by the finger of ELOHIM
without sin . This is quite general and means without any sin and not without this sin. So when he said 'let him be the first' he caught them by surprise. Since he spoke of 'throwing stones', he could not be accused of failure to uphold the law, but the qualification for throwing it prevented anyone from acting. And because they were conscience stricken they walked away B]
Hope that answers the question. Many thanks

sister harb

04-10-2007, 07:52 PM

The Hamas charter beginning with Article 6 tells me otherwise.

Salaam alaykum/Peace to all;

if somebody doesn´t know what is telling in Hamas Charter Article 6, let me help a little:

Article Six: Peculiarity and Independence
The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinct Palestinian Movement which owes its loyalty to Allah, derives from Islam its way of life and strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine. Only under the shadow of Islam could the members of all regions coexist in safety and security for their lives, properties and rights. In the absence of Islam, conflict arises, oppression reigns, corruption is rampant and struggles and wars prevail. Allah had inspired the Muslim poet, Muhammad Iqbal, when he said:
When the Faith wanes, there is no security
There is no this-worldliness for those who have no faith
Those who wish to live their life without religion
Have made annihilation the equivalent of life.

All the Hamas Charter: http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html

This doesn´t sound very bad of my mind... but maybe the reason for this is because I am muslim and understand its meaning.

sister Harb

BGfromGB

04-10-2007, 08:30 PM

Salaam alaykum/Peace to all;

if somebody doesn´t know what is telling in Hamas Charter Article 6, let me help a little:

All the Hamas Charter: http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html

This doesn´t sound very bad of my mind... but maybe the reason for this is because I am muslim and understand its meaning.

sister Harb So is Islam to be imposed even on people who do not want it. The Jews for example. If I am a palestinian christian and want nothing to do Islamic (Sharia) laws then by democratic process, it is my inaleinable right to vote on the matter. I do not need to be forcibly forced into accepting something against my will. But then I have no option do I. Seeing that the christians are a minority.
But of interest, Palestine under an Islamic leadership is far from the Utopia, you make it out to be. It will continue to be until such time ALL the people of that region recognise each other as human beings and who are answerable to their creator. I say it again and I've said it before. There are 2 sides to the coin. With only one side you dont have a coin.

Abdul Hasib

04-10-2007, 09:29 PM

Who the heck is Yeshua?

Happy 2BA Muslim

04-10-2007, 09:33 PM

Who the heck is Yeshua?

Jesus peace be upon Him

BGfromGB

04-10-2007, 09:50 PM

BGfromGB, this is for you again, because it seems you didn`t read it well the first time (remember, you are here to learn about Islam):

Hamas and others do not want the jews wiped off the face of this earth. That is a misconception, but I guess that is why you are here :) . Muslims lived with jews peacefully since the time of the Prophet peace be upon Him.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9474&highlight=muslims+jews+living

And some more facts: (no racism here)

The Jews do not have any stake in al-Quds, because even though they may have lived in the land previously, that land now belongs to the Muslims from two points of view:

1. The Jews disbelieved and are no longer following the religion of the believers among the Children of Israel who followed and supported Moosa and ‘Eesaa (peace be upon them).

2. We Muslims have more right to it than them, because land does not belong to the people who lived there first, but to those who establish the laws of Allaah therein. Allaah created the land, and He created people to worship Allaah in the land and to establish therein the religion, laws and rulings of Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… Verily, the earth is Allaah’s. He gives it as a heritage to whom He wills of His slaves; and the (blessed) end is for the Muttaqoon (the pious).” [al-A’raaf 7:128]

Hence if some Arabs came who were not followers of Islam and they ruled the land with kufr, they would have to be fought until they submitted to the rule of Islam or were killed.

It is not the matter of race or ethnicity; it is the matter of Tawheed and Islam.

Here it is useful to quote the words of one of the researchers:

“History tells us that the first people to settle in Palestine were the Canaanites, six thousand years BCE. They were an Arab tribe who came to Palestine from the Arabian Peninsula, and after their arrival, Palestine was named after them [i.e., Canaan].”

(al-Suhyooniyyah, Nash’atuhaa, Tanzeemaatuhaa, In*!*!*!*!atuhaa, by Ahmad al-‘Awadi, p. 7).

“As for the Jews, the first time they entered Palestine was approximately six hundred years after Ibraheem had entered the land, i.e., they entered it approximately 1400 years BCE. So the Canaanites entered Palestine and lived there approximately 4500 years before the Jews.”

(Ibid., p. 8)

Hence it is clear that the Jews have no right to the land, whether according to religious law or in terms of who lived there first and possessed the land. They are aggressors who are seizing the land by force. We ask Allaah to rid Bayt al-Maqdis of them sooner rather than later, for He is Able to do that and He is Most Generous in answering. Praise be to Allaah, the Lord of the Worlds.

And just in case you bring up the scriptures talk again, here is our (Muslims) stance on it:

It is not permissible to obtain any of the previous scriptures which came before the Qur’aan, such as the Injeel (Gospel or New Testament), Tawraat (Torah or Old Testament) and others, for two reasons.

The first reason is that anything in them that is beneficial has been explained by Allaah in the Qur’aan.

The second reason is that the Qur’aan frees us from any need for these books. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is He Who has sent down the Book (the Qur’aan) to you (Muhammad) with truth, confirming what came before it [Aal ‘Imraan 3:3]

“And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad) the Book (this Qur’aan) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohaymin (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures). So judge among them by what Allaah has revealed [al-Maa’idah 5:48]

So whatever good may be in the previous books is to be found in the Qur’aan. So there is no need to look elsewhere.

Moreover, the Injeel (Gospel) that is existent today is distorted. The evidence for that is the fact that there are four Gospels which contradict one another; there is no one Gospel which can be relied upon.

But the seeker of knowledge who has sufficient knowledge to be able to tell truth from falsehood, may be allowed to read (the previous scriptures) in order to refute the falsehood found therein or to leave the followers of the scriptures with no excuse for not knowing that they are false.

Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Rasaa’il Fadeelat al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him), vol. 1, p. 32-33

So please don`t mention the scriptures again. :astag:
With respect sir not according to the scriptures it isn't. As much as you and I dislike to hear it, Allah enterd into an everlasting covenant with those people. HE does not break covenants. HE never has and never will.

As an ex christian a non Jew and an undecided learner of Islam, it is unfortunately (or fortunately by the will of Allah) something I have to accept. HE is the decider

In case I get labelled a 'zionist supporter or Kffir, let me say this. Whether or you lable me or not , matters not. IT pains me to see that that beautiful land, loaned to us by Allah, being systematically destroyed by unnecessary and unwanton killings being perpetrated on BOTH sides. IT is time for ALL of us, friend or foe, to grow up and behave like civilised human beings. That is the least we can do for our creator.

Ultimately that land belongs to Allah and Allah alone. Who are we to abuse it.

If Islam means submission, then submission it must be. It is time to follow him and not misguided politicians. For truly the day will come when ALL will stand before Him. JEWS, GENTILES, MUSLIMS. No exceptions. He will take us to task for our hatred to one another and judge us accordingly. No doubt about that.

For my part, obsession for ownership of that land is not important.

What's really important is that I follow the will of Allah. Ultimately Allah will take care of the land. But he won't if we don't let him. My priority is Allah and no one else.Not even the mullas or imams,Prime ministers or Presidents If we are to enter the heavens then Allah demands that we respect one another and do to them as we would like them to do unto us. Even if that means embracing our enemy,Allah WILL reward us.

That is the cornerstone of MY faith and committment to Allah. MY needs are not of that land, but of Heaven and if I have to embrace my foe, as hard as it may be, then so be it. For He is oft merciful and oft forgiving, the 99 beautiful names of our creator. Thank you.

island muslim

04-10-2007, 10:11 PM

As an ex christian a non Jew and an undecided learner of Islam, it is unfortunately (or fortunately by the will of Allah) something I have to accept. HE is the decider

In case I get labelled a 'zionist supporter or Kffir, let me say this. Whether or you lable me or not , matters not. IT pains me to see that that beautiful land, loaned to us by Allah, being systematically destroyed by unnecessary and unwanton killings being perpetrated on BOTH sides. IT is time for ALL of us, friend or foe, to grow up and behave like civilised human beings. That is the least we can do for our creator.

Dear BG from GB,

I wont label you anything but your support for israel and seemingly non caring atittude to palestinian suffering has been noted from your comments.

I got two questions.
1) In the above post you declare yourself to be "an ex christian" and an "undecided learner of islam" but if you scroll through all your posts you HAVE SAID that YOU are a christian.

2)From all your posts i notice that you type the word GOD as "G-D" which i KNOW for a fact ONLY JEWS DO. They cannot say the name of HASHEM, or GOD. So can you calirfy why you keep saying you are christian and now you are not??

I know jews are allowed subterfuge when dealing with GOYIM (thats us) but please be honest and clarify.

This thread was started to discuss the palestinian problem and now with your posts we could never get round to disccussing it. Can you please stick to the thread topic and open another thread where we can all talk to you about whatever you want to talk about. Let us all who want to talk about our palestinian brothers and sisters andf their suffering here do it in peace.

Thank you for your understanding.

Maldivian Muslim

sister harb

04-11-2007, 04:48 AM

So is Islam to be imposed even on people who do not want it. The Jews for example. If I am a palestinian christian and want nothing to do Islamic (Sharia) laws then by democratic process, it is my inaleinable right to vote on the matter. I do not need to be forcibly forced into accepting something against my will. But then I have no option do I. Seeing that the christians are a minority.
But of interest, Palestine under an Islamic leadership is far from the Utopia, you make it out to be. It will continue to be until such time ALL the people of that region recognise each other as human beings and who are answerable to their creator. I say it again and I've said it before. There are 2 sides to the coin. With only one side you dont have a coin.

Salaam alaykum/Peace to all;

I don´t see that Palestinian christians would have any dangers from Palestinian muslims, not even from Hamas. Let me give you some examples; before during elections at 2006 January, on the list of Hamas in Gaza were also even one christian candidate and later there were one christian Palestinian in the government (minister of tourism, if I remember right but he resigned in cause of his health problems last summer). The other example from the West Bank; last year after some unkindly statements of the Pope, head of the catholic church, some vandals attacked against christian churches in the West Bank and in many towns and villages for example members of the Islamic Jihad voluntary guarded the safety of those churches.

But what about destiny of Palestinian christians under the zionist occupation? Zionists don´t make any differencies between muslim Palestinians or christian Palestinians. Do you still remember what happened 5 years ago in Bethlehem, when IOF (Israeli Occupation Forces) sieged the Church of Nativity and three other churches in there? Propably you don´t remember. So, let me remind you a little:

Weekly Report
On Israeli Human Rights Violations in the Occupied
Palestinian Territories
April 04-10, 2002

Israeli Offensive on Bethlehem

Israeli occupation forces have maintained the siege on the Church of Nativity, three other churches, and a dormitory of priests and nuns of the Orthodox Church. On Friday, 5 April, Israeli forces sporadically shelled the Church of Nativity to force 250 Palestinians seeking refuge inside to surrender. The bell ringer of the Church, Samir Ibrahim Salman, 42, was killed by Israeli fire. Israeli forces also destroyed the southern gate of the Church and a number of Israeli soldiers moved into its southern yard.

On Sunday, 7 April, the body of a member of the Palestinian National Security Force was discovered. He was hit by several live bullets and is still unidentified.

On Monday morning, 8 April, Israeli occupation forces surrounding the Church of Nativity opened fire at the Church. Fire broke out in a room of a priest. People inside the Church rushed to extinguish fire. Israeli forces fired at them, killing 23-year-old Khaled Mousa Abu Siam with a live bullet in the head.

At approximately 18:00 on Wednesday, 10 April, Israeli occupation forces on the Jerusalem-Hebron road in Bethlehem shot dead ‘Ali Kahlil Mohammed Faraj, 60, with a live bullet in the chest.

Source: http://www.pchrgaza.ps/files/W_report/English/2002/11-04-2002.htm

sister Harb

And p.s.
It will continue to be until such time ALL the people of that region recognise each other as human beings

There is no problem that muslims would not understand so simple principle, but I also wait the time when zionists will recognise other people as human beings and are ready to treat others by respected way. Now they listen too much the such leaders like Lieberman for example...

Bluegazer

04-12-2007, 04:37 AM

Hello BGfromGB,

Thank you for your response and your kind explanation of the meanings of the verses in your post #86 on this thread.

I admit that I should have read your posts more carefully, since your mentioned -more explicitly- the verses I referred to [John 8:6-7].

In your post #41 you wrote:

As Yeshua said " Let him who is without sin, cast the 1st stone"

And in your post #47 you wrote:

Where did you source that from. Its not in the scriptures.Nor is it in the Koran. When Yeshua said Let him (meaning everybody noy just the Jews) who is without sin (again not only the Jews), cast the first stone. This applies to all of us

I apologise for not reading your posts more carefully.

I will now discuss something that apparently has no connection to the Story of the Adulteress [John 7:53-8:11], but you'll see why as you read on.

To begin with, I was surprised by your following statement :

Myself and not being Jewish nor christian nor muslim will have views which are diametrically opposite to yours. That sir, is the tragedy of the situation. So lets agree to disagree. Otherwise this whole thread becomes a slanging match and not an intelligent debate.
But one thing is for sure. G-d made an everlasting covenant with the Jews. He promised to to bring them back to a land flowing with milk and honey. This is mentioned numerous times in the scriptures.
Now before you label me being anti muslim. I'm not. Nor am I a Jew. I believe in what the scriptures say. I also believe in what the Koran says. I have no reason to believe otherwise.

I was glad to read that you believe in "what the Koran says". And yet, you also state that "I believe in what the scriptures say". I assume you're referring to the Bible.

In the Qur'an, God Almighty said that he did indeed reveal Sacred Scriptures, and that the Torah and Gospel were of those Sacred Scriptures revealed to the Messengers Moses and Jesus Christ [peace be upon them] respectively.

For example, read the following translation of the meaning of the Qur'an:

He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Criterion [i.e., the Qur'an]

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 3:3-4]

Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light.

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 5:44]

and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 5:46]

So, as a Muslim, I have to believe that there were other Holy Books that were revealed to other Messengers of God.

However, I also have to believe that these previous scriptures did not survive intact and that the scriptures found today have been corrupted by inserted fabrications and deletions. Please read the following translations of the meanings of verses of the Qur'an:

And indeed, there is among them a party who alter the Scripture with their tongues so you may think it is from the Scripture, but it is not from the Scripture. And they say, "This is from Allah ," but it is not from Allah . And they speak untruth about Allah while they know.

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 3:78]

So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 2:79]

These fabrications and deletions can also be proved by the contradiction found between some Biblical verses and some Qur'anic verses.

For example, in the Bible we find the following:

And about three o'clock Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Matthew 27:46 [New American Bible]

In the Qur'an, God Almighty said:

And [We cursed them] for their breaking of the covenant and their disbelief in the signs of Allah and their killing of the prophets without right and their saying, "Our hearts are wrapped". Rather, Allah has sealed them because of their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few. And [We cursed them] for their disbelief and their saying against Mary a great slander, And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 4:155-158]

So, in the Qur'an God Almighty told us that Jesus Christ [peace be upon him] was not crucified, and therefore if you believe in the Qur'an then you must also believe that the story found in the Bible that speaks of Jesus Christ's [peace be upon him] supposed crucifixion is a fabrication.

There are other examples of a statement in the Bible that contradicts a statement in the Qur'an. I'll just mention two of these examples:

In the Bible, you find the following:

In six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the LORD has blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

Exodus 20:11 [New American Bible]

God Almighty said:

And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 50:38]

And

In the Bible, you find the following:

As he drew near the camp, he saw the calf and the dancing. With that, Moses' wrath flared up, so that he threw the tablets down and broke them on the base of the mountain. Taking the calf they had made, he fused it in the fire and then ground it down to powder, which he scattered on the water and made the Israelites drink. Moses asked Aaron, "What did this people ever do to you that you should lead them into so grave a sin?" Aaron replied, "Let not my lord be angry. You know well enough how prone the people are to evil. They said to me, 'Make us a god to be our leader; as for the man Moses who brought us out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has happened to him.' So I told them, 'Let anyone who has gold jewelry take it off.' They gave it to me, and I threw it into the fire, and this calf came out." When Moses realized that, to the scornful joy of their foes, Aaron had let the people run wild,

Exodus 32:19-25 [New American Bible]

Allah the Exalted said:

And the people of Moses made, after [his departure], from their ornaments a calf - an image having a lowing sound. Did they not see that it could neither speak to them nor guide them to a way? They took it [for worship], and they were wrongdoers. And when regret overcame them and they saw that they had gone astray, they said, "If our Lord does not have mercy upon us and forgive us, we will surely be among the losers." And when Moses returned to his people, angry and grieved, he said, "How wretched is that by which you have replaced me after [my departure]. Were you impatient over the matter of your Lord?" And he threw down the tablets and seized his brother by [the hair of] his head, pulling him toward him. [Aaron] said, "O son of my mother, indeed the people oppressed me and were about to kill me, so let not the enemies rejoice over me and do not place me among the wrongdoing people." [Moses] said, "My Lord, forgive me and my brother and admit us into Your mercy, for You are the most merciful of the merciful."

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 7:148-151]

Note: the above is the translation edited by Saheeh International I believe the underlined phrase would be better translated as " calf (a mere) body" since it corresponds better to the original Arabic عِجْلاً جَسَداً

And Allah the Almighty said:

[Allah said], "And what made you hasten from your people, O Moses?" He said, "They are close upon my tracks, and I hastened to You, my Lord, that You be pleased." [Allah] said, "But indeed, We have tried your people after you [departed], and the Samiri has led them astray." So Moses returned to his people, angry and grieved. He said, "O my people, did your Lord not make you a good promise? Then, was the time [of its fulfillment] too long for you, or did you wish that wrath from your Lord descend upon you, so you broke your promise [of obedience] to me?" They said, "We did not break our promise to you by our will, but we were made to carry burdens from the ornaments of the people [of Pharaoh], so we threw them [into the fire], and thus did the Samiri throw." And he extracted for them [the statue of] a calf which had a lowing sound, and they said, "This is your god and the god of Moses, but he forgot." Did they not see that it could not return to them any speech and that it did not possess for them any harm or benefit? And Aaron had already told them before [the return of Moses], "O my people, you are only being tested by it, and indeed, your Lord is the Most Merciful, so follow me and obey my order." They said, "We will never cease being devoted to it [i.e., the calf] until Moses returns to us." [Moses] said, "O Aaron, what prevented you, when you saw them going astray, from following me? Then have you disobeyed my order?" [Aaron] said, "O son of my mother, do not seize [me] by my beard or by my head. Indeed, I feared that you would say, 'You caused division among the Children of Israel, and you did not observe [or await] my word.' " [Moses] said, "And what is your case, O Samiri?" He said, "I saw what they did not see, so I took a handful [of dust] from the track of the messenger and threw it, and thus did my soul entice me." [Moses] said, "Then go. And indeed, it is [decreed] for you in [this] life to say, 'No contact.' And indeed, you have an appointment [in the Hereafter] you will not fail to keep. And look at your 'god' to which you remained devoted. We will surely burn it and blow it into the sea with a blast. Your god is only Allah , except for whom there is no deity. He has encompassed all things in knowledge." Thus, [O Muhammad], We relate to you from the news of what has preceded. And We have certainly given you from Us a message [i.e., the Qur'an].

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 20:83-99]

Note: the above is the translation edited by Saheeh International [ISBN 9960792633] I believe the underlined phrase would be better translated as "a calf (a mere) body" since it corresponds better to the original Arabic عِجْلاً جَسَداً

I hope you realise from the above examples that one cannot believe in all of the verses of the Qur'an unless he also believes that the previous scriptures were corrupted, because:

1- Allah the Almighty told us [in the Qur'an] that the previous scriptures were corrupted.

2- There are stories in both the Qur'an and the Bible that contradict each other.

Now, as a Muslim, the above is all the evidence I need for me to believe that the Bible was corrupted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will now present further evidence -from Christian sources- that show the Bible was corrupted, for the benefit of non Muslims.

And here we come back once more to the Story of the Adulteress [John 7:53-8:11].

These verses of the Bible that you alluded to are known for a fact to be a fabrication, since they were inserted by someone other than the original author of the Gospel of John.

I will post the Story of the Adulteress as it is shown in the New American Bible [which is a Roman Catholic English version]:

17 Then each went to his own house, while Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. But early in the morning he arrived again in the temple area, and all the people started coming to him, and he sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery and made her stand in the middle. They said to him, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. Now in the law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?" They said this to test him, so that they could have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with his finger. But when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he bent down and wrote on the ground. And in response, they went away one by one, beginning with the elders. So he was left alone with the woman before him. Then Jesus straightened up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" She replied, "No one, sir." Then Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you. Go, (and) from now on do not sin any more."

Source of John 7:53: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PXF.HTM
Source of John 8:1-11: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PXG.HTM

17 [⇒ 7:53-⇒ 8:11] The story of the woman caught in adultery is a later insertion here, missing from all early Greek manuscripts. A Western text-type insertion, attested mainly in Old Latin translations, it is found in different places in different manuscripts: here, or after ⇒ John 7:36 or at the end of this gospel, or after ⇒ Luke 21:38, or at the end of that gospel. There are many non-Johannine features in the language, and there are also many doubtful readings within the passage. The style and motifs are similar to those of Luke, and it fits better with the general situation at the end of Luke 21:but it was probably inserted here because of the allusion to ⇒ Jeremiah 17:13 (cf the note on John ⇒ John 8:6) and the statement, "I do not judge anyone," in ⇒ John 8:15. The Catholic Church accepts this passage as canonical scripture.

Source of footnote 17: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PXF.HTM

[I have coloured the relevant parts in red and underlined and and highlighted the word "all"]

Now, you could clearly see that the Bible posted on the official Vatican website says that the Story of the Adulteress is absent from all early Greek manuscripts. And the Catholic Church accepting this passage as canonical scripture carries no weight, because they are even more erroneous by worshiping Jesus Christ [peace be upon him] and the Holy Spirit alongside God Almighty, while they should only worship God Almighty and believe in His Oneness, not in a trinity. They should also believe that Muhammad [peace be upon him] was the last Messenger of God Almighty.

What does other English Protestant versions of the Bible have to say about the Story of the Adulteress?:

((The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53-8:11.))

New International Version

Later mss add the story of the adulterous woman, numbering it as John 7:53-8:11

Footnote (a) to John 7:53
The New American Standard Bible

John 7:53 to 8:11 is absent from most of the older manuscripts, and those that have it sometimes place it elsewhere. The story may well be authentic. Indeed, Christ's response of compassion and mercy is so much in keeping with His character that we accept it as authentic, and feel that to omit it would be most unfortunate.

Footnote (a) to to John 7:53, I have coloured the word "may" in red.
The Amplified Bible.

[[I]The most ancient Greek manuscripts do not include John 7:53–8:11.]

New Living Translation

[The earliest manuscripts do not include John 7:53-8:11]

English Standard Version

The words [I]And everyone through sin no more (8:11) are bracketed by NU-Text as not original. They are present in over 900 manuscripts.

Footnote (a) to John 7:53
New King James Version

[The earliest manuscripts and many other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53-8:11.]

Today's New International Version

To be fair and not to mislead you, there are other English versions that do not mention that John 7:53-8:11 was a later insertion. These versions include the King James Version, the 21st Century King James Version, the American Standard Version and others.

If you want to check out these quotations, go to www.biblegateway.com and enter John 7:53-8:11 on the left field while changing the version on the right field.

You also have the documentary Who Wrote the Bible? that was aired on Christmas Day 2004 in the UK on Channel 4. It was presented by Dr. Robert Beckford [a Christian Theologian].

Dr Robert Beckford, is looking for for good answers to what sounds like a simple question: Who wrote the Bible?

It's a question that has preoccupied biblical scholars for several generations but Beckford, who is director of the Centre for Black Theology at the University of Birmingham, forsakes the library and takes to the road in a journey from Jerusalem to Rome and on to the USA (with a stopover in Walthamstow). On the way, he talks to American pilgrims shouldering crosses on the streets of Jerusalem, to the head of the Pope's Bible Institute, to a former criminal and boxing promoter in East London, and many more.

http://robertbeckford.co.uk/taxonomy/term/2%2B3

And you can also check out the Channel 4 website about this documentary:

http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/C/can_you_believe_it/debates/bible.html

But who's Dr. Robert Beckford?

Robert Beckford is Reader in Black Theology and Culture at Oxford Brookes University, Oxford, and is the author of a number of books in the field of religion, popular culture and politics, including a study of Gang Culture in Birmingham and an examination of the hermeneutical quality of reggae-dub.

A teacher for most of his life, he first taught adult literacy at Bournville College in the early 1990s and progressed to become a tutor in theology at Queens College in Birmingham (1992-8) where he taught trainee clergy. He began teaching at the University in 1999, working first as a research fellow with offenders at Birmingham prison and then moving to the teaching staff in 2001. He Joined Oxford Brookes as the Reader in Black Theology and Popular Culture in January 2007.

A firm believer in teaching for social change, Robert also educates in community centres, care homes and male prisons. He currently supervises post graduate students in religion, politics and cultural studies.

As well as teaching Robert has presented a number of documentaries for the BBC and Channel 4 covering a range of subjects including Jamaican Independence, the rise of fundamentalist Christianity, historical revisions of empire, the Bible and world conflict, Gospel Music, Reparations and Patron Saints. He gained a BAFTA in 2001 for diversity in educational broadcasting. He is currently the presenter of the Sunday Morning Show on BBC WM.

Source: http://robertbeckford.co.uk/node/1

According to an article by Liz Ford published in the Guardian newspaper on 17th of May, 2005, Robert Beckford studied religion and sociology at Houghton College in New York, , received his Masters degree in Hermeneutics at what was then London Bible College, in Middlesex, and is now the London School of Theology and finally received his PhD degree from the University of Birmingham.

Source: http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/profile/story/0,11109,1485116,00.html

I strongly suggest you watch the documentary Who Wrote the Bible? by clicking on the following link. It's 1 hour and 40 minutes long:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7785317849743909385&q=

And here's where I come to my main point.

When you wrote in post #91 that:

As much as you and I dislike to hear it, Allah enterd into an everlasting covenant with those people. HE does not break covenants. HE never has and never will.

As an ex christian a non Jew and an undecided learner of Islam, it is unfortunately (or fortunately by the will of Allah) something I have to accept. HE is the decider

And in post #81 that:

Also are you telling me that Allah when he made an everlasting covenant would now see fit to break it?

And in post #83 that:

What I'm trying to say is that noway can G-d break a promise. He never has and never will.That's what I learnt as a christian and I'm sure its the same with Islam. A promise is a promise is a promise

And in post #50:

But one thing is for sure. G-d made an everlasting covenant with the Jews. He promised to to bring them back to a land flowing with milk and honey. This is mentioned numerous times in the scriptures.
Now before you label me being anti muslim. I'm not. Nor am I a Jew. I believe in what the scriptures say.

And in post #35:

The Jews are part of Gods creation, and whether we like it or not, The almighty made a covenant with them. There are abundant passages in the scriptures to verify this.

From all of your above statements, I can see that you firmly believe that the Jews were promised the Holy Land for eternity in the Biblical scriptures.

You first have to understand that:

1- We Muslims believe [because of the above mentioned verses of the Qur'an] that the Bible was corrupted. Therefore, however many times you mention the scriptures [i.e., the Bible] it just won't change our minds. And if you believe in what the Qur'an [I'm referring to your statement in post #50 "I also believe in what the Koran says."] then you must also conclude that the Bible was corrupted.

2- Even Christians should rethink their belief that the Bible is the Word of God. I have quoted to you what many [U]versions of the Bible say about a certain passage [John 7:53-8:11]. This passage is taken for granted by Christians to be an actual fact, while the Bible versions I mentioned say that it was a forgery inserted into the Bible.

So, the conclusion is that the Bible was corrupted. Therefore, how can you firmly believe that the Holy Land belongs to the Jews? What is the basis of your conviction?

In the end, BGfromGB, I realise that this post might seem very aggressive. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings or anything of the sort. I just feel that you came to this forum to see the candid and honest opinion of Muslims, and the above was certainly my candid and honest opinion

I hope you all the best BGfromGB.

Best regards,

Bluegazer

MOSABJA

04-12-2007, 06:20 AM

justoneofmillion

04-12-2007, 07:30 AM

Well I have heard much about Israel .Let us talk about Arabs .These Arabs are so rich and yet they do not defend themselves. They spend their money on hotels and luxurious things . Look at DUBAI. I think it is an AZAAB from ALLAH that Israel is openly doing everything and yet these Arabs don't even think of strengthening their defence .LOOK AT EXAMPLE OF PAKISTAN.A third world poor country but still has the most powerful Military in the Muslim world.It is the only nuclear power in Islamic world. Ex PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN ZULFIQAR ALI BHUTTO said

"People of Pakistan will eat leaves and grass will go hungry and will do anything, but will make nuclear bomb "

Israel threatened Pakistan many times but it dared not attack us .It is still the prime supplier of weapons to enemy of PAKISTAN ,INDIA.

ARABS SAY "We will be destroyed, we will be humiliated but we will not stop spending billios of dollars on luxury hotels and parks.assalamu aleikum, i would kindly advice you to hold you tongue next time and avoid generalising use the word "arabe leaders it is more appropriate!" 1000 and 1000 of your arab brothers have been going for jihad in afghanistan ,chechenya, kashmir,bosnia,iraq from europe from everywhere risking their lives for this ummah and i myself have three uncle who have died as shahid alhamdulilah and do not forget that has it been without the what you call arabs(alhamdulilah) islam would never have reached spain indonesia,north africa,west africa east africa.....etc am myself half arab so avoid to generalise next time because i know some arabs who would teach you and anybody in here their religion without anydoubt! inschallah pray that your arab brothers will get rid of their dictators because they are among the ones who are suffering right now in palestine and iraq!so avoid generalising!

wassalam

SINDBAD

Oem Soufiane

04-12-2007, 07:35 AM

BGfromGB

04-12-2007, 07:51 AM

Salaam alaykum;

by the way, what is so wrong if Hamas would like to wipe Isreal out of the map then? This is just what Isreal wants to do, wipe out Palestine and all Palestinians away.

If you search information from Hamas to the question like that, then yes, they resist the zionist terrorism against Palestinian civilians and the zionist state called "Israel" but they don´t hate all the jews and they don´t even want to exile every of them away from Palestine.

sister HarbAnd your proof is? By the way I do not wish to continue with with this discussion. Not because I have nothing to hide. But I was sensured by the moderator of this site. He told me this is a site for Islamic discussion. Not debate. I gave him my undertaking that I would not enter/create debates. So if you have a problem please feel free to raise the matter with him. Thank you

BGfromGB

04-12-2007, 08:07 AM

Hi Bluegazer
Its humble and polite people like you that make me want to know more about Islam.

Its people like you, and who goes to great lengths to politely and calmly explain what Islam is really about.

You are a credit to your religion.

Unlike some of the posts I receive which are blunt, crude, and in some cases threatening. These posts I just plainly ignore. At one stage I came very close to shutting my computer to this Islamic forum.

Unfortunately I have to go to work now. But I will study your post as soon as I can. May HE bless you. Thank you sir.

Zaarah

04-12-2007, 08:47 AM

Assalamu alayhum,

I've just sat for twenty minutes and read every post in this topic and it's made for really interesting reading.

As far as I understand there are three sides (is that possible?) to this issue: The palestinian people who want to live on their land self governed and in peace, the Israeli's who believe Israel has been given to them as a gift from God as they are the chosen people and the Zionists who have their own agenda of middle eastern domination.

Every religion believes their's to be the true religion - otherwise why would they follow it? So it's understandable that Jews would want to live on the land which they believe is their biblical right. However, approximately 80% of Jews are Ashkenazi and originate from a tribe in middle Europe and not the Jews of the Middle East at all.

I've watched so many documentaries about Palestine, both pro and anti occupation and my breath has caught in my throat at times at the blatant and agressiive racism which is edured by the Palestinians on a daily basis.

Equality and to live life without threat of violence are basic tenents of human rights but are denied to Palestinians as a matter of course. I think it's important that we remain intact as a collective voice of Islam and do all we can to help our opressed brothers and sisters in Palestine and elsewhere.

Sorry this post is a bit discursive, I just didn't want it to turn into a diatribe ;p

Wasalaam ayalkum

Zaarah

04-12-2007, 08:49 AM

And your proof is? By the way I do not wish to continue with with this discussion. Not because I have nothing to hide. But I was sensured by the moderator of this site. He told me this is a site for Islamic discussion. Not debate. I gave him my undertaking that I would not enter/create debates. So if you have a problem please feel free to raise the matter with him. Thank you

The proof is in Israel's actions..nothing more and nothing less

hussain.mahammed

04-12-2007, 09:24 AM

As salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wabrakatuhu
The bottomline is zionist regime of israel is an illegal occupation of Filasteen (who do not understand in english its Palestine). It is in fact the biggest terrorist organisation on the face of this earth. These invaders should give away the lands to its people. They can go to such an extent of bringing imaginarily the lost tribes from different parts and remote areas of the world and giving them citizenship. Who do they think they are? They are being supported by US,UK led western coward governments, who are in psychic fear most of the time.
This really is the truth.
wa/salam

BGfromGB

04-12-2007, 09:37 AM

Who the heck is Yeshua? Strange. And you say you're the guided one. Soneone needs to study up here. That's for sure

justoneofmillion

04-12-2007, 10:09 AM

Strange. And you say you're the guided one. Soneone needs to study up here. That's for sureHI bg ithink the only one who needs to study up here about certain matters is you! i asked you to define the word"semitic" a word that you apparently love to use without knowing it`s signification your answer was quote" am not a historian i just believe what i get to see in the news is there anything wrong with that?"brother ibn azem ,proud 2 be muslim bluegazer,ibn al aawam,sis samiha,myself and others have been giving you links books but the only thing that seems to catch your attention is this political issue
if you wanna learn about islam than start by the religious questions at least! anyways that is my humble opinion the choice is yours i wish you the best inschallah.

ps:about the music stuff i told you thati had discovered something more beautiful that i didn`t like it anymore but you didn`t seem to get it and i can`t explain you something i thousand times i kinda trust your mental ability to understand!so don`t dissapoint me(just kidding)
regards:)

SINDBAD

Oem Soufiane

04-12-2007, 10:49 AM

people people, don't get nasty with eachother:SMILY252: BGfromGB is here to learn about islam, not to debate, and our young brother Abdul Hasib is only 12 yrs old mashallah, and very well educated in some issues. We can't know everything all at once.

dna1987

04-12-2007, 11:51 AM

Strange. And you say you're the guided one. Soneone needs to study up here. That's for sure

Why do you keep insisting that Muslims start putting the bible before the Quran, and Yeshua (Jesus, a prophet and messenger of God) before Allah? I think Abdul Hasib is very much a guided one, specially considering his age. I was a brat 7 years ago when I was his age.

To be guided, we don't need to know what "yeshua" means. We call him "Isa", and I'm sure Abdul Hasib knows who Isa is. :)

MOSABJA

04-12-2007, 11:58 AM

ISREAL will surely cease to exist one day that's what prophet(P.b.u.h) .But wait for afghans to win the war because they will be the one to fix ISRAEL

Abu Hurairah (R.A.) says that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "(Armies carrying) black flags will come from Khorasan. No power will be able to stop them and they will finally reach Eela (Baitul Maqdas) where they will erect their flags."( Ref: Saheeh Trimdi)

2)Narrated by Abdur Rehman Al-Jarshi that I heard companion of Dear Prophet(salallaho alayhay wa sallam), Hazrat Amr Bin Marra Al-jamli(R.A) that Dear Prophet(salallaho alayhay wa sallam) said: Surely Black Flag will appear from the Khorasan until the people(under the leadership of this flag) will tie their horses with the Olive Trees between Bait-e-Lahya and Harasta. We asked are there any Olive trees between these places. He said,”If there isn’t then soon it will grow so that those people(of Khorasan) will come and tie their horses there.”( Ref: Kitab-al-Fitan Page 215)

BGfromGB

04-12-2007, 02:34 PM

HI bg ithink the only one who needs to study up here about certain matters is you! i asked you to define the word"semitic" a word that you apparently love to use without knowing it`s signification your answer was quote" am not a historian i just believe what i get to see in the news is there anything wrong with that?"brother ibn azem ,proud 2 be muslim bluegazer,ibn al aawam,sis samiha,myself and others have been giving you links books but the only thing that seems to catch your attention is this political issue
if you wanna learn about islam than start by the religious questions at least! anyways that is my humble opinion the choice is yours i wish you the best inschallah.

ps:about the music stuff i told you thati had discovered something more beautiful that i didn`t like it anymore but you didn`t seem to get it and i can`t explain you something i thousand times i kinda trust your mental ability to understand!so don`t dissapoint me(just kidding)
regards:)

SINDBAD Hi there million. About those questions. If you read them again you'll see what I'm alluding to. I quite understand it when you said you found something more beautiful. Fine. Basically I asked you about the musical TALENTS that G-d gave you and that what your views were on making full use od them. ( I'll have to look back now but it was Something like that)

ibn azem

04-12-2007, 02:40 PM

:salam2:

Since this thread has been going off topic many times I think it is the best to make and end to it and if anyone has got to say anything then do that in another thread.

Remember that in the rules there's a sentence that says:
- Please keep ON TOPIC. Please Do not make threads meander off-topic. Topics of political nature should be kept with the confines of the Political section, otherwise will be closed.The thread's closed.

wasalaam.