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samiha
11-02-2006, 11:41 PM
:salam2:

I want your comments.......



Less Europe, More Islam
By Annette Grossbongardt

For almost half a century, Turkey has been pursuing European Union membership. With negotiations now started though, enthusiasm is waning. And the influence of Islam is on the rise.


AP
Turkey's road to the EU has always been a rocky one. But it may be getting even rockier.
At first glance, the "Sah Inn Suite" Hotel in Alanya looks no different from the average sunny resort along the Turkish Mediterranean coast: a bulky construction with a honeycomb of balconies, looking out over a generous swimming pool surrounded by parasols and lounge chairs. But, in fact, only men are allowed to take a refreshing plunge into these shimmering blue waters. Women vacationers at the Sah-Hotel swim in a strictly isolated pool for women. And what about a cold beer? Forget it. There is no alcohol here; instead, a mosque offers communion with God.

Why the piety? It's an effort by hoteliers to show their consideration for observant Muslims who want to enjoy "a vacation in keeping with religious laws." And the options for such devout holidays are growing in secular Turkey. Islamic-style swimsuits are the new rage on the beaches and around pools across the country. Nowadays, observant women venture onto the sands clad head-to-toe. Manufacturer of these chaste outfits is the Istanbul fashion firm Hasema, whose customers include the wives of leading politicians of the governing AKP, the religious-conservative Justice and Development Party.

The Cumhuriyet newspaper, which tends to be critical of the AKP, already considers Turkey to be "besieged by Islamic dress regulations." The secular press meticulously covers all violent incidents that appear to be religiously motivated: a young, bikini-clad student attacked by cloaked religious fanatics for example; or a couple assaulted for openly drinking beer during the fasting month of Ramadan. A police officer hit a girl because she was supposedly wearing a skirt that was too short. These are shocking incidents in Turkey, where laws are supposed to protect against religious paternalism, where restaurants are open during Ramadan and where headscarves are banned at universities, schools and public offices.

The state radio-control has visited Islamist broadcasters that -- under names like "Radio Full Moon" or "Tulip Rose" in -- rail against Christians and Jews in so-called "religious talk shows," or warn women not to shake men's hands and remind them to behave modestly.

The Muslim Three Muskateer

Even political censorship, which in itself is not unheard of in Turkey, is now practiced in the name of religious modesty. Last week, for example, the ministry of education set off a storm of anger with its regulation decreeing that images of the well-known Delacroix painting "Liberty Leading the People" be removed from schoolbooks. The reason: the bare breasts of the standard-bearer in the depiction of France's 1830 July Revolution.


AFP
Islamic bathing costumes are becoming more popular in Turkey these days.
Recently, the ministry of education itself was outraged over the fact that several publishing companies had, on their own initiative, rewritten children's books that the ministry had recommended for classroom use. In the edited versions, Pinocchio, Heidi and Tom Sawyer live in an Islamic world where inhabitants wish each other a "blessed morning" or ask for food "in Allah's name." Aramis, one of the Three Musketeers, even converts to Islam.

Is Turkey really becoming more Islamic? And particularly now, after coming so far on the way towards Europe? What is undeniable is that, one year after the opening of accession talks with the EU, the atmosphere in Turkey, with its 99 percent Muslim population, is increasingly anti-European, anti-Western and more nationalistic. Only one third of Turks support membership in the European Union, according to a survey published last week in the daily Milliyet -- a dramatic change for Turks, who have been big fans of Europe for so long.

A good a week before the planned publication of the latest EU-Progress Report, the government in Ankara now fears a further worsening of the climate. If the report is, as expected, negative -- sharply critical of the judiciary and the limited freedom of opinion, as well as the Turkish relation to the status of Cyprus -- then Turkey is on the verge of a "massive shock," the nation's papers say.

"Europe only wants us to assimilate"

Many, even pro-Western Turks, feel that Europe has criticized them unfairly, or even repelled them. "The eastern European states were supported to an incredible degree, practically pushed into EU membership -- that can't be said about Turkey," protests Cem Duna, board member of the powerful industrial association Tüsiad, which continues to advocate for EU accession. Religious Turks, on the other hand, are primarily disappointed that Europe and the EU-friendly AKP have failed to bring greater religious freedoms. "Our women who wear headscarves still are not permitted to study," complains Ali Bulaç, columnist for the Islamic newspaper Zaman. The circulation of religiously oriented publications has tripled in recent years.

When the AKP first came to power four years ago, Bulaç was still enthusiastic about Turkish accession. But then the European Court of Human Rights ruled that Turkey was justified in excluding headscarf-clad women from the classroom. Bulaç recalls angrily how his own wife was barred from their daughter's graduation ceremony because of her headscarf. Now he declares: "We have to find another way, perhaps by looking towards Asia or the Middle East. Europe only wants us to assimilate."

The influential columnist represents an emerging religious sector in Turkish society. Like their secular counterparts, many religious Turks have also profited from the economic recovery of recent years. A new religious bourgeoisie has been the result, and they now want to take advantage of their newly won affluence.


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"Anyone who is rich and religious can live happily in his own world," says Islam expert Serif Mardin. "You buy Islamic designer fashion, drive an expensive car with tinted windows, get your Internet from a fellow believer, use an Islamic bank and relax at separate swimming pools." In Istanbul, where rich Turks often live in guarded luxury, there are now also separate districts for practicing Muslims. And the rise of this new, self-confident Islamic sector is tipping the hard-won balance between secular and Islam in Turkey.

Economist, kick boxer, and modern woman

Western-oriented Turks fear that their country's image is suffering. "Anyone who does not know Turkey wonders how I can live here as a modern woman -- and it's great here," says Ümit Boyner, board member of the eponymous textile firm in Istanbul. This 42-year-old economist, also a kick boxer, has headed a campaign by the trade association aimed at improving Turkey's image. "We want to show that a land with an Islamic identity is completely compatible with Europe." For Boyner, Turkey is "forever a secular state."

But that is exactly what is at risk, warn the Kemalists, who see themselves as upholders of the secular teachings of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. These profoundly worldly Turks, who used to be the nation's elite, feel threatened by the creeping Islamization of society. Specifically, they point to the fact that, under the AKP, the religious sectors of society have been reintroduced into the state bureaucracy.

Under Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, adherence to laws meant to protect secularism has been lax, complains Ural Akbulut, rector of the Technical University in Ankara. One already sees women with headscarves at some universities, he points out. "On my campus, no one is permitted to show up in a religious uniform," Akbulut emphasizes. "If we lift the ban on headscarves, then they would come tomorrow in a chador and the next day in a burka. In the end they would be beating up girls who wear modern dress. We have seen in Iran how fast it can happen."

Just recently, Akbulut discussed the dangers to the Republic with his friend Ilker Basbug, commander of the Turkish Army. Basbug, in a widely regarded appearance, publicly warned about a "fundamentalist threat" to Turkey that has reached "alarming dimensions." Erdogan, for his part, vehemently rejects the charge. "We want to bring Turkey to Europe," insists an Erdogan-insider, "and we are staying the course."


REUTERS
The founder of modern-day Turkey Kemal Atatürk is watching. But does he like what he sees?
The English-language paper, The New Anatolian, has also addressed the question on its Web site in a piece wondering whether Erdogan will turn Turkey into a second Iran. It's not yet that far. Turkey is becoming more conservative, says economic adviser Sinan Ülgen, "but we are not on the way to an Islamic state." Still, the AKP wants to give "more space to the religious agenda, and create a new balance between secularism and religion."

Watching the imams

Even the President of Religious Affairs of Turkey Ali Bardakoglu, is convinced that "secularism and modernity" are "irrevocably and deeply anchored in the Turkish identity." The Religious Affairs Directorate (RAD) under Bardakoglu is one of the key positions for state control of religion. Turkey's 70,000 imams are public servants who answer to the RAD. Friday sermons are closely watched to prevent the preaching of hate. "In Turkey, we nurture a moderate and tolerant Islam," Bardakoglu emphasizes.

He himself is a liberal who is certainly not loved by many ultra-religious Muslims. The headscarf is not at all required, says this learned theologian and lawyer. "A Muslim is not determined by what he wears, by whether he drinks alcohol or wears a beard." Anyone who defines religion that way contradicts "the essence of Islam," suggests this watcher of the faith.

Saifadin_Qutuz
11-03-2006, 04:56 PM
I think its forgeting its religion.
But I know that there are people who are devout muslims.
Is there any other way I can comment? heh sorry

samiha
11-03-2006, 07:05 PM
No I don't think there is anything to be said. I mean I want it to go towards Islam, but the way things are looking..... I don't know...

Many of the people seem to have a messed up understanding of Islam.

May Allah guide them.

aliff
11-03-2006, 07:34 PM
The headscarf is not at all required, says this learned theologian and lawyer. "A Muslim is not determined by what he wears, by whether he drinks alcohol or wears a beard." Anyone who defines religion that way contradicts "the essence of Islam,"

They trying to blend the laws of islam in their own way ! :astag:
Situation doesn't look good, the way i see it.

May Allah(s.w.t) guides them and us all.

cedric098
11-03-2006, 07:34 PM
Well I think Turkish people are one of the the craziest nation indeed!! I know there are pious muslims and some turkish people are trying hard to practice all aspects of their religion although there are many obstacles, they cling to Sunnah more than even most of the arab people... On the other hand it's a secular country in which you can't even go to school with you hijab! Religion, definitaly restricts your social life so you need to choose between your deen or worldly life.. you are never let to have both!... Am I wrong Turks? Anyway it should choose to go towards Islam but only Allah knows what's best for this country! I personally consider it an important part of the Islamic world!

mosabaig
11-03-2006, 07:37 PM
Assalam O alakum,

"If you press a spring it will bounce back harder"

people are looking and watching what world trying to make Muslims look like

which everyone knows is full of lies and wont last long, I think its not Turkey

or Iran but its Europe who are gonna come to Islam and then ask Turkey to

be their passage to Asia ................................. Allah is Lord of us all

Ayep
11-04-2006, 12:43 PM
:
But that is exactly what is at risk, warn the Kemalists, who see themselves as upholders of the secular teachings of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. These profoundly worldly Turks, who used to be the nation's elite, feel threatened by the creeping Islamization of society. Specifically, they point to the fact that, under the AKP, the religious sectors of society have been reintroduced into the state bureaucracy.


Eventually the Kemalist will collapse because people tend to wake to reality when their fantasy had failed them once again.

It about time Turkey regains back its true identity than trying to become a Western state that it is not. When 'human speculation' fails its back to 'divine revealation' eventually. Allah will replace people with error with the righteous ones.
:wasalam:

khan_saddozai
11-05-2006, 04:54 AM
salam
i think turkey cares more about europe then islam...its sad coz non-muslim countries respect islam more than turkey..
but thats no 2 say every turk is not islamic..
salam

Paki Idol
11-11-2006, 02:52 AM
Turkey?
I think Turkish ppl are coming back to Islam.The Government has also realised that Europeans, more likely the christians won't allow a Muslim country into EU!!Even if they would allow Turkey, then Turkey would get into more trouble as the West will play it's cards to get Turkey unIslamic and ruin Turkey's image.

OmarTheFrench
11-11-2006, 02:56 AM
In their practice the Turkish are less hypocrites than others.In their society there isn't social pression for wear the headscarf or do the Ramadan so its more authentic when someone than others countries.

samiha
11-11-2006, 04:15 AM
oh my. i feel so sad for the leader of Turkey.

As one friend of my father said, "Leading is NOT an HONOR.
It's a RESPONSIBILITY."

I don't see why people who know Islam (or claim they do) try so hard to be a leader. A leader is accountable for all the people under him. The people of the past would cry when they became leader, because they feared Allah's punishment if they didn't lead their people in the right path.

Subhanallah.

seeking_peace1
11-11-2006, 07:23 AM
Assalam-o-Alaikum.

well honestly speaking i think more or less its the same with almost whole ummah.most muslim countries are trying to adopt what simply doesn't belong to them.but as someone said before at the end of the day every individual comes back to its origin.slowly and gradually people in general are coming back to the peace of Islam.

i've always been thinking about western socities and muslim socities trying to adopt their lifestyle.western socities even after attaing "freedom",infact crossing every limit of freedom,still they are not happy,that satisfaction and happiness every human strives for still remanis a dream to be achieved for them.then what the muslim socities find that attractive in them,the result of that so called freedom is right infront of the whole world.

may Allah swt guide us to the truth.

W'Salam.

habib786
09-17-2007, 05:59 PM
what i see is .. first and the foremost .. being an islamic country the people should hold tight to the rope of Quran and its sunnah ... if we hold fast there is solution to the problem but for the heck of becoming part of Eu sacrificing ur islamic roots seems crazy to me ...the west is fast coming to islam so will the EU's too .. inshallah ...rest Allah knows best what is good for the people .. May Allah Guide Us All...

IslamIsLight
09-17-2007, 07:00 PM
salam aleikum
I know many turkish sisters here and I dont see anything wrong with them ..They gather all the time and discuss religion and trying to learn .I find them very educated and intelegent......
waaleikum salam

hussain.mahammed
09-19-2007, 11:40 AM
Everything will go back to Allah Subhanahu wa Taala. Even if Turkey or any other country tries to be with the West, everything will come into the fold of Islam sooner or later.
I voted for ISLAM.
wa/salam

Mustafa Burak Se
09-19-2007, 01:41 PM
Salam.

I do come from Istanbul / Turkey. But i am away from my country since 2004 for my educational purposes. Anyway after Ottoman Empire is clashed or ended and Ataturk established a new kind of ruling system and borrowed from west (Greece and modern Europe ruling system) Republic and called it Repuplic Of Turkey. But just it, no title of Islam or anything. For example i do live right now in Islamabad (Pakistan) and its called Islamic Repuplic of Pakistan. Its diffrent. But if you examine this two coutry, both of them perplexed and chaotic. Mostly its about governing them.

Turkey after living His Ottoman history from his vains and blood, they stuck on secularizm which came from France. Actually i like French secularism and its more diffrent then Turkish secularism because there is no secularism in Turkey. Its just a word. Secularism means simply goverment don't interacts with Religion and religion with goverment. But we have Minister of Religion. Now where is secularizm and how it can be done? This is an illusion. The books of religion who are teached in schools chosen by goverment, and children only can go in summers to Kor'an courses for study how to read Kor'an and some other basics.

I myself studied almost 5-6 years in Islamic Schools (madrasah) and my last and best teacher which who was leading figure in my country about Sufizm thought and entellectual information about Islam, he killed last Ramazan and according to my sources He killed by Greece side. My schools are forbidden in Turkey. But there madrasas in Turkey. They simply teaches How to understand Kor'an, (Taafser, Fikh, Hadeeth, Usul-u Hadeeth and Tafseer (method), Logic and Kelam (kind of Islamic Belief system and philosophy) etc.

But these important subjects are not included in summer courses which helded mostly in mosques and teenagers went there.

So there is no secularism in Turkey, there are misunderstanding and Kemalism. Actually Kemalism is a philisophic thought which Ataturk himself did not found it. After his death one Ottomon Jew changed his jewish name to Turkish islamic name and wrote his book `Kemalism`

Obviously Turkey after many wars include First and second World Wars, changed his face from east to west. Many entellectuals believed knowledge and light is in West. They stuck with west.

Mustafa Burak Se
09-19-2007, 01:51 PM
Still this phenomena going on. After founding of Turkey two major power divided,
rightist and leftist. Leftist mostly become komunist of repuplican kemalist. Most of them can not bear the idea of Religion they poisoned by the western thought like age of reason, materialism, pragmatism and positivism . etc. Most of them tried to erase signs of religion like Ismet Inenu who tried to break down Saint Sophia (Aya Sophia) minarets. But could not be succcesful cause Mimar Sinan (famous ottoman architect) build the minarets which tied up with roof of mosque (ancient church of byzantium) and if any one of minaret will be break whole mosque was going to be demolished. Soc he was genius. And power of darkness could not be succesful. But they went their kufr (aim) and still going.

Other power was rightist. Most of them was conservative muslims, who believe Allah and with this believe they served to humanity. And some of them became only conservatives not related with religion only by tradition.

And from that time on struggle goes on in Turkey. And I know all east watch Turkey for re-birth and re-collect them again. And this is the fear of west. They know this is end of west. It's meant to be like this.

Now I should go to pray and eat my iftari. I will narrate short stories about turkey soon in future.

maas salamah

Mustafa Burak Se
09-22-2007, 05:48 PM
salam

now ı can say turkey lives islam fifty persent and other fourty persent is literally muslims on paper as christians right now in europe or u.s. And who lives islam practically most of them learns islam in traditional way after establishment of turkish repuplic. Because government does not provide enough sources and teachers and schools to teach injuctions and basics of islam. What is thought in primary and secondary school is easy-busy things for children and if ı say that ı say they teach nonsense.

Before the elemination in turkey, one kemalist-repuplican prof. (woman) who is rector of a one university and president of kemalist civil organization (which is semi-govermental org.) said, after a teenager girl prayed a salat on the desk in the class of religion, culture and ethics, that prof said, "we should teach our children how to dance on the desk not how to pray. we are living in 21. century. you can picture the scene in your mind how kemalist-repuplicans, or so-called staters thinks in turkey. actually such kind of people hold power by coming certain places is goverments and burocracy in the states in 1970s. Obviously they protected themselves and gave their places to their next generations. Because of this this presentidal elemination was very important for consevatives and kemalist repplicans. because presendital place was the last castle.

Now powers are exchanged. I called this movement in turkey and revolution.

Europe fears turkey because if they accept him, turkish muslims can impress and effect western people's mind and call them to islam. turkey has biggest youngest population in turkey. and young generation is always changable in turkey. if turkey joins to europe, constitution must be changed, and it must be most democrotic in law and social life and people will have more freedom in thinking. we have great power in scholars about islam but they are muted. only we need freedom to speak about facts freely. turkey's young generation can be lead to the right path and then they can lead europian genarations. ı think so and i think this is one of the europe's fear.

The answer is turkey go to Europe and İslam together, at the same time.

al-fajr
09-25-2007, 10:26 PM
:salam2:

Everything will go back to Allah Subhanahu wa Taala. Even if Turkey or any other country tries to be with the West, everything will come into the fold of Islam sooner or later.
I voted for ISLAM.
wa/salam

I agree 100% :)

Waseem Hanif
09-26-2007, 03:56 AM
Everything will go back to Allah Subhanahu wa Taala. Even if Turkey or any other country tries to be with the West, everything will come into the fold of Islam sooner or later.
I voted for ISLAM.
wa/salam

:salam2:

I think ur naiv brother. So are those who voted for Islam. I cant even imagine Turkey becoming more islamic. The only islamic thing they have over there is that they´re not selling pork. There are also alot of those "Kemalists" who (even though they have no knowledge about Islam) look down on Islam.

Amirah20
09-26-2007, 06:17 AM
MashaAllah they have so many beautiful masjids in Turkey...too bad they're all empty.

P.S lets give credit to all the sisters in Turkey who are fighting the hijab ban.

kayleigh
09-26-2007, 04:26 PM
Europe. Being a member of the EU and being Muslim aren't mutually exclusive, though in Turkey's case it's clear they don't care about Islam.

If the public cared about Islam, and the government didn't, it wouldn't be that bad. But, unfortunately, the public doesn't care much either anymore.

al-fajr
09-26-2007, 05:14 PM
:salam2:

:salam2:

I think ur naiv brother. So are those who voted for Islam. I cant even imagine Turkey becoming more islamic. The only islamic thing they have over there is that they´re not selling pork. There are also alot of those "Kemalists" who (even though they have no knowledge about Islam) look down on Islam.

He's not naive.

Whats naive about believing Islam will come back in the most unlikely of places (even though turkey isnt the MOST unlikely place). Islam will come out on top, it always has done and always will do, its the nature of Islam.

Who would have ever believed that Islam would dominate the Arabian peninsula and eradicate the jahaliyyah there? it was laughable, but it happened, also the defeat of the Persians and the Romans by the muslims was all because they out there trust in Allah (s).

Turkey will become Islamic, by the will of Allah (s).

ottomana
09-26-2007, 07:11 PM
Assalamu Alaikum to all,

We are here brothers and sisters... :)

If you ask my idea about the poll. I think that Turkey is heading to neither Europe nor Islam.

Allahu akbar,

Your brother from Turkey.

dianne
09-27-2007, 04:02 AM
Assalamu Alaikum to all,

We are here brothers and sisters... :)

If you ask my idea about the poll. I think that Turkey is heading to neither Europe nor Islam.

Allahu akbar,

Your brother from Turkey.

Salam brother,

Turkey is majority were Muslim rite? Why your country didnt declared Islam as formal religion? Like most of the Islamic country.Just asking.

wassalam

Al-Gharib
09-27-2007, 04:53 AM
One name: Mustafa Kemal Attaturk

The main cause behind the demolishing of the caliphate, and the "secularization" of Turkey...

alkathiri
09-27-2007, 05:08 AM
One name: Mustafa Kemal Attaturk

The main cause behind the demolishing of the caliphate, and the "secularization" of Turkey...

Correct me if im wrong Abdullah Gul is better

Al-Gharib
09-27-2007, 05:20 AM
Correct me if im wrong Abdullah Gul is better

I'm talking abou the initial reason why we have no Caliphate, and why Turkey is how it is now...

Just look up Attaturk and you'll see what I mean.

Waseem Hanif
09-27-2007, 03:53 PM
@Al-Gharib

U Arabs are good in blaiming others I guess ? The things kemal did, I would have done , too.

Waseem Hanif
09-27-2007, 03:57 PM
The reason why we have no Caliphate and why turkey is like that, is because
of KING FAIZAL. He and his british friends attacked the ottoman empire and helped to destroy it. The caliphate was begging them to stop, but greedy faizal didnt.


DONT U ARABS ALWAYS BLAME OTHERS !!!!!!!

OTTOMAN EMPIRE WAS PROTECTIVE OF U GUYS. AFTER OTTOMAN EMPIRE U GOT BEATEN IN EVERY WAR !!! :)

al-fajr
09-27-2007, 05:08 PM
:salam2:
The things kemal did, I would have done , too. er...are you SURE about that? You mean you would actively work against Islam, eradicate it from society...ban hijab and all the rest:

CQQFydrOqwk

May Allah give him what he deserves.


DONT U ARABS ALWAYS BLAME OTHERS !!!!!!!
OTTOMAN EMPIRE WAS PROTECTIVE OF U GUYS. AFTER OTTOMAN EMPIRE U GOT BEATEN IN EVERY WAR All muslims do that, we blame everyone else apart from ourselves, now..youre blaming arabs for the fall of the Ottomans..Arab nationalism was significant but the Khilafah wouldnt have fell if the muslims were straight in there Iman. Plenty of unislamic things occurred prior to 1924, eg the Armenian Genocide of 1916...if they were upholding Allah's law, why did genocide occur under there rule? approx 1.5 million Armenians were massacred. The point is they weren't upholding Allah's law, and they hadnt been for a long while! and they had wahn and fear of the kuffar in there hearts aswell! You're concentrating on just ONE contributory factor there.

Waseem Hanif
09-27-2007, 05:31 PM
There is a reason why he hated Islam so much.

Ottoman Empire was protective of the muslim world. Then Faizal sold himself to Great Britain and FOUGHT against the Ottoman Empire. Ot.Empire fell apart and was occupied. Those occupierers RAPED; LOOTED AND KILLED . ALL OF THIS BECAUSE OF FAIZAL AND SOME DUMB ARABS.

THATS WHY HE HATED ISLAM AND ARABS. I WOULD HAVE TOO
MUSTAFA KEMAL HELPED TO CREATE ISRAEL, LOL
Why, BECAUSE HE HATED U ARABS ; )

AFTER OTTOMAN EMPIRE , ARABS LOST EVERY WAR THEY PARTICIPATED IN.

AND I ALREADY HAVE SEEN THAT VIDEO. IT WAS DONE BY SOME ARAB.

justoneofmillion
09-27-2007, 05:44 PM
There is a reason why he hated Islam so much.

Ottoman Empire was protective of the muslim world. Then Faizal sold himself to Great Britain and FOUGHT against the Ottoman Empire. Ot.Empire fell apart and was occupied. Those occupierers RAPED; LOOTED AND KILLED . ALL OF THIS BECAUSE OF FAIZAL AND SOME DUMB ARABS.

THATS WHY HE HATED ISLAM AND ARABS. I WOULD HAVE TOO
MUSTAFA KEMAL HELPED TO CREATE ISRAEL, LOL
Why, BECAUSE HE HATED U ARABS ; )

AFTER OTTOMAN EMPIRE , ARABS LOST EVERY WAR THEY PARTICIPATED IN.

AND I ALREADY HAVE SEEN THAT VIDEO. IT WAS DONE BY SOME ARAB.Assalam , some Arab:mad: How can you support the views of a political prositute like Attaturk!that fought the khilafa and forced your sisters to walk half naked in the streets!you really need to watch your words i won`t get into details....Aber das Kann doch nicht dein ernst sein oder?
i won`t talk to you right now because you really pissed me off with your arrogance and ignorance!you better get yourself toghether Allah hafiz

ottomana
09-27-2007, 05:57 PM
Assalamu alaikum,

Dear my brothers and sisters,

When writing here talk with wisdom as a good muslim.

We cannot blame only Mustafa Kemal or King Faisal. They are only a part of the equation. Modernisation of Ottoman Empire began many years before Mustafa Kemal. He was only a catalysor in this.

And please dont blame a specific nation. We all have faults. We all have kuffar and munafiqs inside. But you cannot name all them Arabs and Turks or etc. The best kuffar did is to seperate us into parts. I am Turkish. A muslim arab is my brother and a Turkish mushrik is my enemy.

But the matter of Turkey is so specific and I cannot answer it in a short reply. Maybe later.

Take care all,

Waseem Hanif
09-27-2007, 06:14 PM
Assalam , some Arab:mad: How can you support the views of a political prositute like Attaturk!that fought the khilafa and forced your sisters to walk half naked in the streets!you really need to watch your words i won`t get into details....Aber das Kann doch nicht dein ernst sein oder?
i won`t talk to you right now because you really pissed me off with your arrogance and ignorance!you better get yourself toghether Allah hafiz

And some of u guys piss me off, like that al gharib guy. U call me arrogant and ignorant(lol). Thats ok , if thats how u see me. U call mustafa kemal a political prostitute, what about faizal ?

ottomana
09-27-2007, 06:42 PM
Also but dont make the same mistake like other western people. They are all blinded by mass media against Islam.
And do not repeat their propoganda about the Genocide? against Armenians. Listen to your brothers first. Not the kuffar. Do not believe the fasiqs news.

It is true that too many Armenians died. But also too many turks,kurds,arabs died in the hands of Armenians. Do you know how many?

do you know what happened there, they used unheard ways, never seen ways to kill innocent children, pregnant women, old people. Everyone.
You cannot even read it.

Dashnaks, Tashnaksutyum. Did you ever heard them? What they did? When did this happen? What is the reason? What is Wilson principles? etc.

Please be more wiser. Do not give response without thinking.

Take care.

OTTOMANA

justoneofmillion
09-27-2007, 06:43 PM
And some of u guys piss me off, like that al gharib guy. U call me arrogant and ignorant(lol). Thats ok , if thats how u see me. U call mustafa kemal a political prostitute, what about faizal ?Assalam,,who is this some of you guys ?is there a we and you i wasn`t aware of?your statement is quite contraproductiv?you concentrate to much on resentment you throw you cards meaninglessly to polirize rather than to achieve that which is usefull am afraid.
And this is not the first time.i just kept quite for the others, however you are taking a wrong path there ,and it is my duty to shake you off a little so that you may wake up inschallah
love you for the sake of Allah swt
wassalam

samiha
09-27-2007, 08:17 PM
:salam2:

I made this post a long time ago, and i have no possible Idea why at this point it got popular again. At that time when I made this, I was kind of angry and frustrated towards Turkey and its laws and how they had EVERY chance to foster and Islamic country if they all worked together yet instead they perferred to go and "moderize" and let go of their Deen and do what I saw as "sucking up" to the EU.

Yes it did make me angry at that time. That they knew arabic, that their country was ingrained in it, but then all of a sudden they decide to go change it. I don't know how many people or what I would do now to be born knowing arabic, the language of the Holy Qur'aan, and they would have that chance, but now they do not. And how Hijab is FARD and how they can deny an act that is obligatory for a Muslim and not allow women to get educations with it and etc. THAT i find is a greater discrimination and injustice against their own religion they hold the title of ... even most 'secular' countries don't do that. So what I found in them, compared to my own feelings and understandings... made me lose hope for them.

I want them to come to Islam, but I didn't see it as happening.

HOWEVER if I were to go back to that time when I made this, and re-read this again, I speculate I would not have put this on the forum, nor made a poll of it, nor even given rise to such a question.

They are as they are. Allah knows which way they are going, i don't think we should judge anymore. There's too much judging now. Surely amoungst all these people there are some who are doing wrong, and others who are being wronged. Surely amougst them are those who stand for truth and justice, and stand alone on the path of Islaam as strangers even when everything else seems to be contradictory. Surely there must be some such people, and for them is not only hardship but also honor and responsibility. Many times, assuredly it may be hard but to be able to be upon what they know is truth and guidance of their Lord and follow Islaam when all other people are not, is a favor from Allah.

As the Messenger of Allah :saw: said, "When Allah wishes good for someone, He bestows upon him the understanding of Deen" [Bukhari and Muslim]

So thus, to be able to do that is an honor, but a responsibility as well. For a Muslim's job doesn't end in just learning and understanding something, but in teaching and spreading it. Just as gaining knowledge is Fard, so is doing Da'wah.

The Prophet :saw: said to Ali (ra), "By Allah even if a single person is guided by Allah through you, surely it is better for you than a whole lot of red camels." [Bukhari and Muslim]

*** noting here that at that time red camels were the best and most expensive of camels

And the Messenger of Allah :saw: also said, "Convey from me even an Ayah (verse) and relate traditions from Banu Israel, and there is no restriction on that, but he who deliberately forges a lie against me should make his abode in the Hell-fire." [Bukhari]

So these things go hand in hand. I have hope, that perhaps one day... insha'allah Islam will come back on the rise, in the proper way and that people will give its due importance.. and certainly when the day of Judgement draws near, at one point our Ummah WILL come together... so other than that I have nothing more to say but May Allah guide the misguided, and help keep us upon the Straight Path.

I didn't open this thread in order to generalize the turkish people, and if I have unknowingly done so, i ask forgiveness, nor did i want this to become a dissection as to the precise reason why and where secularization began, nor about a certain person nor people. Who we should be the most worried about is OURSELVES.

Especially in the month of Ramadhan.

Let's all spend our time better, and not talking about Filthy Politics and such from which we shall not derive benefit. This goes to me, first and foremost.

Jazakallah for feed back, if anyone was offended, I ask you not only forgive the one who has done wrong, but me as well.. for having asked such a silly question.

Barakallahu feekum

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wasalam