Evidence that Music and Singing are Haram [Archive] - TTI

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ibnAbdullah87

10-01-2006, 07:04 PM

Listening to music and singing is a sin and cause for the sickening and weakening of the heart. The majority of the scholars of the Salaf are unanimous that listening to music and singing and using musical instruments is Haram (prohibited).
Evidence that Music and Singing are Haram

1. Allaah said, what translated means, "And of mankind he who purchases idle talks to mislead (people) from the Path of Allaah without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allaah) by way of mockery, For such there will be a humiliating torment." [31:6].

Al-Wahidi , along with other scholars of Tafsir (explaining the Qur'aan), said that "Idle Talk" in this Ayah is singing. The following companions gave this Tafsir: Ibn Abbas, Ibn Masud, Mujahid and Ikrimah . Ibn Masud said, "By Allaah, whom there is no God except Him, idle talk is singing."

2. The Prophet said (which means), "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allaah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." [Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 69, Number 494v].

This Hadeeth states that musical instruments are Haram, and there is no disagreement among the scholars on this. In his book, Ighathat Al-Lahfan, Ibn Al-Qayyim said, "When the Prophet said, 'render as lawful,' he meant that it was unlawful, then the people made it lawful."

3. Abu Hurayrah narrated that the Prophet said, what translated means, group of this nation will be transformed into monkeys and swine." They said, "Do not they testify that there is no god except Allaah and that Muhammed is His Messenger?" He said, "Yes. And also they fast pray and perform Hajj." They said, "Then, what is their problem?" He said, "They use musical instruments, drums and female singers. (One day) they will go to sleep after a night of drinking and having fun, In the morning, they will be transformed (by Allaah) into monkeys and swine." [Iughathat Al-Lahfan].

4. Allaah said, criticizing the Kuffar's worship around the Kaa'bah, what translated means, "Their prayer at the House (Kaa'bah) was nothing but Muka'an and Tasdiyah." [8:35]. Ibn Abbas, Ibn Umar, Atiyyah, Muj ahid, Ad-Dhahh'ak, AlHasan and Qatadah said that Muka'an means whistling, and that Tasdiyah means clapping of hands.

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Sayings of the Scholars Regarding Music and Singing
Imam IbnTaymiyyah said, "Listening to music and sinful fun are among what strengthens the satanic ways the most. This is exactly what the disbeliever's used to do. Allaah said, And their prayer at the House (of Allaah) was nothing but Muka 'an and Tasdiyah. [8:35]. Ibn Abbas, ibn Umar and others said that Tasdiyah is clapping of hands, and that Muka'an is whistling. This was the Mushrikeen's way of worship. The Prophet and his companions worshipped Allaah , according to His order, in their prayer, reading the Qur'aan and Dhikr (supplication). It never occurred that the Prophet and his companions gathered to listen to singing that is accompanied by clapping or using drums."

Imam Ibn Taymiyyah also said regarding the person, whose habit is to listen to music, "His state of emotions becomes less passionate when he hears the Qur'aan. On the contrary, when he listens to instruments of the devil (music), he dances a lot. If the prayer is established, he either prays while sitting down or performs it as fast as when the roaster picks seeds. He dislikes listening to the Qur'aan and does not find beauty in it while reciting it. He has no taste for the Qur'aan and feels no love for it or pleasure when it is read. Rather, he finds pleasure if he listens to Mukaa' or Tasdiyah. These are satanic pleasures and he is among those whom Allaah mentioned in the Ayah, And whosoever turns away from the remembrance of the Most Beneficent (Allaah), We appoint for him Satan to be a companion for him. [43:36]." [Awliyaa' Ar-Rahman].

Imam Ibn Al-Qayyim said, "Of the tricks of the enemy of Allaah, Satan, that he uses to trap those who do not enjoy much intelligence, knowledge or sincerity in religion, are M ukaa' and Tasdiyah. These people of ignorance listen to and use musical instruments that are prohibited and which lead the hearts to abandoning the Qur'aan. These hearts are indulging in sin and disobedience of Allaah. Music, then, is Satan's Qur'aan and the barrier between one and Allaah. It is the way to sodomy and adultery. With it, the lover finds what he seeks and dreams of sinful love. Satan has trapped the weak hearts in the love of singing and made it beautiful to them. Satan reveals to his agents' fake proofs that they use as evidence to the beauty of singing. These people accept Satan's revelation and, as a consequence, abandon the Qur'aan. When you witness them while listening, you will find them silent in humbleness, sitting idle and their hearts are concentrating and totally enjoying music and singing. Their hearts will feel closer to music, as if they were drunk. They dance and move in a suggestive manner, like faggots and whores. And why not? They are drunk with the pleasure of listening to music and singing and act accordingly. For other than Allaah, and for Satan, there are hearts that are being broken by sin, and fortunes that are being spent for other than Allaah's Pleasure. They spend their lives in joyful fun and make a mockery of their religion. Instruments of the devil are sweeter to their ears than the Qur'aan. If one of them listens to the Qur'aan from beginning to end, it will have little effect or excitement on him. If Satan's Qur'aan is being performed and heard, they feel joy in their hearts and one can see it in their eyes. Their feet dance, their hands clap, their breathing intensifies and the rest of their bodies feel joy. O you who are trapped in this sin, you who have sold your share of Allaah to Satan, what a losing deal! Why not feels this joy when you listen to the Qur'aan? Why not feel pleasure and comfort when the Glorious Qur'aan is recited? But, everyone seeks what he feels is suitable for him, and ends up with what is really suitable for him." [Ighathat Al-Lahfan].

Sheikh Abdulaziz bin Baz was asked about listening to music and songs, "Is it Haram? I only listen to it for pleasure. What about playing the Rababah (a kind of guitar) and old songs? What about using drums in weddings?"

Sheikh Ibn Baz said, "Listening to music is Haram and a sin. It is a matter that leads to weakening the hearts and abandoning the Dhikr of Allaah and the prayer. The scholars said about the Ayah, And of' mankind he who purchases idle talks [31:6], that idle talks means singing. Abdullaah ibn Masud , the Prophet's companion, used to swear by Allaah that it is singing. If singing is accompanied by the Rababah, 'Ud (Arabic guitar), fiddles or drums, it is even more Haram. Any singing with any instrument is Haram and the scholars are unanimous on this. Therefore, Muslims must be aware of it. The Prophet said, "From among my nation there will be those who render as lawful adultery, silk (for men), AI-Khamr (alcohol) and musical instruments." [Al-Bukhari]. I advise you and others to read the Qur'aan and keep remembering Allaah. I advise you to listen to Qur'aanic programs on the radio. This way, one will find pleasure and will keep busy so he can stay away from music and songs. As for weddings, the Daff (tambourine) can be used along with innocent singing that does not call to sin. This can be done at night, only in weddings and only by and for women. These songs are a way of announcing an Islaamic marriage. The Sunnah of the Prophet supports the above. As for the drums, they are Haram all the time. The Daffis permitted in weddings and only for and by women."

Many Muslims today render music as permissible. This is due to their ignorance or outright defiance of the religion. We ask Allaah that we are among those who listen to the speech and follow the best of what it contains. These are the ones whom Allaah has guided and granted them the bounty of sanity and comprehending minds.

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zarah

10-02-2006, 11:15 AM

:bismillah:

:salam2:

Is this for real?

:wasalam:

ansari

10-02-2006, 11:37 AM

:salam2:

my brother everyone listen to music i dont think its haram

what u will say about naats is it haram ???

zarah

10-02-2006, 11:42 AM

mosabaig

10-02-2006, 05:24 PM

:salam2:

There are many important commandaments of Allah which many of us in this time not following so much so that it seems they are new to our ears .......but remember they also carry a huge reward because they have to be brought back in the life ...it might take scrifice our desires but nothing goes un rewarded by the most generour :Allah:

ibnAbdullah87

10-02-2006, 09:43 PM

I am refering to any kind of music with insturments. It is so wide spread amongst the muslim that us people that don't have much knowledge take it to be something that is allowed but it is not and the proofs are seficent.

Abu Hurayrah narrated that the Prophet said, what translated means, group of this nation will be transformed into monkeys and swine." They said, "Do not they testify that there is no god except Allaah and that Muhammed is His Messenger?" He said, "Yes. And also they fast pray and perform Hajj." They said, "Then, what is their problem?" He said, "They use musical instruments, drums and female singers. (One day) they will go to sleep after a night of drinking and having fun, In the morning, they will be transformed (by Allaah) into monkeys and swine." [Iughathat Al-Lahfan].

The hadeeth here shows that they fufill the obigations but they use musical instruments, drum and listen to female singers. And Allah will punish them in this world.

ibn azem

10-02-2006, 10:09 PM

:salam2:

JazakAllaahu khair brother, I couldn't have all these fatwas by the scolars (r.a.) but it's good that someone brought them about. Aay Allaah swt. help the muslim youth get rid of the music, which for some may be a bit hard to do(though a bit more taqwa and love for Allaah swt.: possible insha'Allaah), and strengthen our love towards listening to what is really healthy for our soul.. our beloved Qur'an. ;)

Karima

10-03-2006, 06:51 AM

Asalamualikum,

Can you prove to me that God/Allah did not give me the gift of the ability to play the piano?

Sallam

Ahmed ibn Ibrahim

10-03-2006, 07:14 AM

Wow... I never thought of this, but upon reflection I have to admit - it's all just idle talk and distracts us from reality. Even the Christian music I listen to on the radio does intoxicate the mind to a certain degree, though for the most part none of the lyrics would be concidered objectionable.

There are many times in my day when I am fully concience; When I am in quiet thought and prayer to Allah, and all is well with me. I am alert, attentive to my responsibilities, and feel free of any sin (as best I can be). I am able to control my thoughts, feelings, and impulses.

However, even when I'm listening to "good" music this changes. I'm distracted, usually out of communication with Allah, and pondering over things to which I have no control. I become emotionally arroused, and am easily swayed from joy all the way to anger - joy might seem like a good thing in this situation, but it's not really joy of Allah's truth I'm happy about but rather joy of some person's words (which might reflect certain aspects of Allah, but still is an incomplete/inaccurate account with bits added and pieces removed) and the pleasant sounding instruments/sounds I'm listening to.

I can't deny how my pagan forefathers (I'm talking like hundreds/thousands of years ago) would dance around late-night fires to the beat of drums and extremely bizzare words, afterwards engaging in all sorts of questionable behaviour. How different are we today, listening to Eminem or Jays of Clay (Christian alternative-rock band) or even some of the Islamic artists I've heard?

Aaack - I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Being a Muslim isn't easy. I suppose I know that everything I sacrifice for the sake of Allah in this life will be rewarded in the next. Will angels play me harps and sing proper songs that glorify Allah and praise things that are pure and true? It's hard to imagine giving up my love of music, but at the same time I must ackowledge that I love Allah more than anything of this world - and that it is my desire to obey Him.

Soo... I can listen to radio talkshows and the Qu'ran, and that's it? Wait, I got the impression that I can listen to recorded sounds of nature, too. That might not be so bad - listen to the song of the Amazon Jungle? A thunderstorm over the crashing waves of the ocean? How about the sounds of sealife (dolphins, underwater effects, whales, crabs)? How about a Volcanno errupting? That might be cool =) Any thoughts, my scholarly family? ;D

Ahmed ibn Ibrahim

10-03-2006, 07:22 AM

Asalamualikum,

Can you prove to me that God/Allah did not give me the gift of the ability to play the piano?

Sallam

Erm yeah, I can: Your mother/father gave you that gift when they hired a piano teacher to spend hours and hours of your life learning how to read music, compose it, and play it effectively. You had to force yourself to teach your fingers how to move in the proper sequences in order to produce pleasing sounds.

Where's Allah in this equation? What meantion of music does He command in the Holy Books? What does the Qu'ran say about it, or the Haddiths? These are what God said to be true and pure gifts, and what he warns against too. Perhaps one of our brothers/sisters knows the specific chapters/verses that deal with this issue, and what Allah had to say about it in different contexts/situations that we had revealed to us.

And before you answer: Well God gave me my parents, therefore it must be alright - concider that parents also pass on lots of haram ideas; like superstition, pagan traditions (Christmas, Halloween, for example), drinking/smoking/drug-use ... etc

afnan

10-03-2006, 08:55 AM

:salam2:
brother Ahmed :subhanallah: may ALLAH shower his blessings upon you.

Abu.Amirah

10-03-2006, 09:22 AM

Assalamau aleikum,

We need to seek knowledge and to learn everyday and not just pray and read Quran. We need to undertand & practise what was taught to us by the Prophet (s.a.w).This issue of Music has been a major topic and most people dont want to accept it because its in their veins.One cannot feel good until he/she listens to Music.Why do you need to listen to music? to relax your mind? You will find that we enjoy Music more than listening to Quran.
Why should we do what the christians do as to make music part of their prayers?
Other people claim that the coming generation will be in bad position due to other musics so its better we make our islamic music so that instead of them singing bluez or jazz they sing the islamic ones.I dont agree on this at all.
We follow the culture of the western and we have forgotten the way of life of our beloved (S.A.W).
Many Muslims sacrificed their lives for this religion until we could raise our flag high and now we want to make this religion to be of musicians?
We need to wake up,we are not here in this world forever and the time we have is so preciouse to us and we will be asked of how we used it.
What will you answer Allah(s.w) when you are asked of how you spent your time in this world? That I was listening to Sami Yusuf?
Do we really need to pass the message to the young generation through Music?
Please correct me if am wrong but we need to be careful on what we decide lets not do things which will lead the Ummah to the wrong way.

Jazakallahu kheir!

Mrmuslim

10-03-2006, 03:22 PM

Asalamualikum,

Can you prove to me that God/Allah did not give me the gift of the ability to play the piano?

Sallam

salaam alikom.
I know sister Karima its hard for you to give up something you been doing all your life ( playing piano) but inshallah maybe its a test from Allah for you!!?

Just remember the prophet peace be up on him said.
من عف نفسه عن شيء في الحرام أناله الله له في الحلال
Who ever modest (portect) him/her self in something haram Allah will give you the same in Halal

HOW ALLAH WILL GIVE YOU THE SAME IN HALAL HE KNOWS BEST

the point is its just not to prove something to you.... there are a lot of benifit in Alkhol but Allah told us in Quran the Harm in alkhol is more than its benifits ,that why is haram..there isnt any prove in quran that selling and buying Alkhol in Quran is Haram so dose it make it Halal to sell and buy without drinking them .. the benifit of selling them is hat you can make a gain a lot of money from selling beer and alkho and people who have gas stations can testify to this...and they can use this money for good matters like helping mosque etc... so dose it make it halal to sell them???? No because the propeht peace be up him told us it haram.

You saying you connect to god through Music, try to give up the music and connect to Allah through prostration Sajdah this the position when you are most close to Allah, you been playing piano all your life and its hard to just give up something you been doing all your life, but you need to try.

Allah told us through his prophet Allah gave us a lot of gifts that dosnt mean we can use them any way we want to , Allah told us through his propeht peace be up on him what allowed and whats not allowed in our religion there are limits the prophet peace be up him said
الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم: "الحلال بين والحرام بين وبينهم أمور مشتبهات فمن ابتعد عن الشبهات فقد استبرأ لدينه وعرضه".

Prophet peace be up on him said..(The Halal is clear and the Haram is clear and in between them are ambivalent matters which many people do not know. Whoever guards himself against ambivalent matters has secured his deen and honour).

Please read this Q and answer from a shiekh.

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=5011&ln=eng&txt=pIANO

May Allah help you and us from falling in doubtfull matters
wa salaam alikom

samiha

10-03-2006, 04:37 PM

Asalamualikum,

Can you prove to me that God/Allah did not give me the gift of the ability to play the piano?

Sallam

:salam2:
look sis, none of us are trying to attack you or your piano playing skills, we are just here to learn. The basics of it is... do you spend the same time reading the Quran as playing music? Do you love the Quran more than music? Think about that for a while...

Will angels play me harps and sing proper songs that glorify Allah and praise things that are pure and true? It's hard to imagine giving up my love of music, but at the same time I must ackowledge that I love Allah more than anything of this world - and that it is my desire to obey Him.

Soo... I can listen to radio talkshows and the Qu'ran, and that's it? Wait, I got the impression that I can listen to recorded sounds of nature, too. That might not be so bad - listen to the song of the Amazon Jungle? A thunderstorm over the crashing waves of the ocean? How about the sounds of sealife (dolphins, underwater effects, whales, crabs)? How about a Volcanno errupting? That might be cool =) Any thoughts, my scholarly family? ;D

:salam2:
As far as I know it's fine to listen to sounds of nature as it will bring about the remembrance of Allah and his creation, but i'm pretty sure that in a Muslim perspective we have no mention of the Angels playing any musical instraments.... but we as humans can't comprehend the beauty of Paradise.
All the best.
:biggrin: :salam2:

Karima

10-03-2006, 05:37 PM

Asalamualikum,
Asalamualikum,

look sis, none of us are trying to attack you or your piano playing skills, we are just here to learn. The basics of it is... do you spend the same time reading the Quran as playing music? Do you love the Quran more than music? Think about that for a while...

I do not sit at the piano as much as I read the Qur'an. The topic has been music, and that is 'haram'. In fact, I do more reading than playing the piano.

The simple fact that music is haram is easy...when discussing music at bars, songs about lovers, etc......

I am just looking for a man-made rule on this or the actual curse of God/Allah, should I sit and play the piano?

Sallam

mosabaig

10-03-2006, 09:00 PM

Assalaam O Alakum

Real question is what we think of our din, Is it just Ibaadah and rewards, or do we have same responcibility as our prophet of spreading our din, because then like the prophet and sahabah we wouldnot have time to entertain our self like the others, then we would have full yakeen that we would have these pleasures and more in Jannah

This world and its pleasures are nothing compare to Jannah, so this is a place for diffrent purpose........

Islam is much deeper and life of Prophet is the best example of what Allah wants from us .......did the prophet ever listen to music

Karima

10-03-2006, 10:24 PM

samiha

10-03-2006, 10:41 PM

Asalamualikum,

This discussion keeps going further.....music for 'entertainment' is haram...

...about the prophet listening to music....or jesus....or moses....or abraham....listening to music....What did David do in psalms....played music on his harp for God....not for entertainment....

So is it a curse from God/Allah when I sit to play the piano?...not for entertainment.....but for praise inside myself with beautiful notes?...to hear with our ears....just as delicious food for our tongues that we enjoy eating...and the beautiful sunsets for our eyes to see.....

:salam2:
Ummmmmmmm.... excuse me no disrespect but I don't recall Dawood (alayhi sallam) ever played music. perhaps it would be best if you read a muslim biography of the prophets peace be upon all of them. You see, music for entertainment and otherwise is still music. I am a Muslim, i can call myself an American but i'm still muslim. Music can be for entertainment or otherwise but it is still music.

bluey

10-04-2006, 01:48 AM

Im confused....U say all forms of drums and music and musical instruments and singing are haraam...women singers are damned...all who listen to music turn to swine and monkeys????

Yet later you say women CAN sing, and that the tambourine is allowed ( unless I am totally daft - that IS a a musical instrument ) and that at weddings women should sing to announce a marriage????

So is singing and music allowed or disallowed? As I understand haram is HARAM. HALAL is HALAL and there is a grey area in between, of which if you are doubtful to avoid .

Yes, buts... dont work for me.

As sis Karima said - where did one's talent of playing instuments come if not by Allah's Beneficience? Shaitan doesnt have such abilities, Im sure.

Reciting Islamic poetry to the accompaniment of the oud and other Middle eastern instruments - HARAM?

I see it as Allah having provided mankind with abilities and intelligence. What you do with music that is created is important, to fall under its spell is decidedly wrong I agree. But to teach a child to love Allah through a simple musical piece - HARAM? My little niece goes about chanting - "I Love Allah" to the tune of "Are you sleeping" - what she is being taught is HARAM? I only see it as what ALLAH has created for mankind - do not forget we have free will and A BRAIN. Use it well - it will help you in our continuous struggle to reach Allah swt. Fail to use it - music, instuments , singing well - then you join the DARK SIDE....lol.

Just me thots...:cool:

samiha

10-04-2006, 02:22 AM

:salam2:

What is the opinion of Islam (al-hukm al-shara) on the singing ?

Fatwa

Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds, and blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.

There are many types of singing. Each kind has a different rule. 1- If the singing contains any musical instrument, then it is Haram for both men and women. 2- Many scholars have sanctioned prohibition of listening to the musical instruments. Among them are IMAM QURTUBI, AL-TABARI, IBN AS-SALAH, IBN RAJAB, IBN AL QAYYIM and IBN HAJAR AL-HATAMI. IMAM QURTUBI said: Listening to reeds, strings, drums etc. is Haram. I do not know a jurist in the past or the present permitted it. How would it not be Haram? This is the motto of drinkers, dissolutes and shameless people. If the matter is as stated here, then nobody doubts its prohibition and nobody denies that whoever uses these things is a disobedient". This is narrated by IBN HAJAR AL-HAITAMI in his famous book “AL ZAWAJIR MIN IQTIRAFIL KABAIR”. As regards (DUFF) Tambourine, it is permitted for women in the occasions of EID & marriage. 2 – If the singing is not accompanied by a musical instrument, it is of two kinds: A. Singing of women for men. This is absolutely Haram. Islam forbids women from calling for the AZAN and reciting the Qur'an in the presence of men. If a woman sings for ladies saying something containing good words, then it is permitted. B. Singing of a man. If he is singing good poetry that involves good subjects, then many jurists have permitted it. If it contains bad things like calling to depravity, abomination or describing a woman's body, etc. then it is prohibited.

Allah knows best

btw- it didn't mention children... they don't count

And on the playing of piano, change the guitar to piano

Is it legal in Islam to play the guitar as a hobby ?

Fatwa

Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds; and blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.

Allah says: {And of Mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing…etc.) to mislead (men) from the path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it (the path of Allah, the verses of the Qur’an) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment in the Hell-fire} [31:6] This verse is an explanatory apposition of what proceeds it which explains the state of the (M‘uhsinu’n) good-doers who perform Salah, give Zakah and believe faithfully in the Hereafter. Allah mentioned that those who refuse to profit from Allah’s words, and who prefer listening to music & songs will be humiliated in the Hell-fire. According to Ibn Kathir, al-Hassan al-Basri explained the verse [31:6] above as being revealed on singing and music. But this is only if the person is too inclined to these things. Taking singing and playing the guitar as hobbies is unlawful. One instead should use his leisure time in lawful and useful matters in this life and the Hereafter. Listening to music is unlawful for the following Hadith: The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “A time will come where people will make adultery, fornication, silk, guitars and wine lawful”. So, as long as listening to music was counted among these unlawful things, it shouldn’t then be taken as a hobby. Allah knows best.

Karima

10-04-2006, 02:44 AM

To clear the air....I was playing the piano, age 4, before taking piano lessons.... to know what the music notation meant. Any prodigy of music does not need a rocket scientist to help him play the piano....it comes from within...a unique gift.

Praying to Allah is done without music...Reading the Qur'an is done without music....Reading Hadiths is done without music....all good to do.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Purple"] I know that the purest form of prayer is full attention only to Allah, and pray as the prophet Muhammad set the example to. There should be no music at all...therefore, it would be haram, in this case...I understand.

What is very disheartening, is to hear that nice music, with no words, is haram, and is evil. I cannot agree, even if all the pianos were burned. Music is music.

I don't recall Dawood (alayhi sallam) ever played music.

Lightning won't strike you if you pick up a bible or have someone pick it up and read in psalms that David=Dawood played music to God. Better yet, try Google search....

This is out of respect, since I don't have a problem reading the Qur'an and also out of a bible....What I read is for learning more about God/Allah....and what the message is. Many non muslims do not have hang ups about reading anything....they just read...on the other hand, should a muslim pick up a bible, who knows what just might happen...heaven forbid...

I do understand strong opinions about music. There are many other things worth spending time on.

Thank all of you for your time to help me understand that music is a very controversial subject. When haram is mentioned, I think of someone stealing, killing, hating, etc....and nice, quiet music never entered my mind as being something evil....

....I plan to stay on the light side....remaing on the path towards God/Allah. Use it well - it will help you in our continuous struggle to reach Allah swt. Fail to use it - music, instuments , singing well - then you join the DARK SIDE....lol.

Peace and Blessings be upon all of you.

Kayote

10-04-2006, 07:19 AM

[COLOR="Green"]This is out of respect, since I don't have a problem reading the Qur'an and also out of a bible....What I read is for learning more about God/Allah....and what the message is. Many non muslims do not have hang ups about reading anything....they just read...on the other hand, should a muslim pick up a bible, who knows what just might happen...heaven forbid...

:salam2:

That is most disappointing to read how you categorise Muslims as not willing to study other religions. I intend to study Christianity & Judaism once Ive learnt about Islam, simply because its interesting topic & Insha'Allah will make it clearer to me how perfect Islam is.

The uncle I live with has studied Bible in great detail & is Masha'Allah one of the most knowledgable people I know.

:wasalam:

Karima

10-04-2006, 12:48 PM

Asalaualikm,

Wonderful!!! This, then is how I have felt when muslims just keep to their readings, and say 'this is the truth', which it is...and not see the other side of what non muslims believe.

Had I not experienced this in discussions of Islam, then I would have never implied that this seems to be the 'norm' of muslims, from my observations.

It is commendable that your uncle has done this!!!

I intend to study Christianity & Judaism once Ive learnt about Islam, simply because its interesting topic & Insha'Allah will make it clearer to me how perfect Islam is.

This has been my goal, since learning about Islam in the beginning of my search for the truth...so to be able to be grounded in knowledge and have the wisdom to say what is the right thing to say. I am so glad you want to do the same!!!

May Allah reward you for all of your efforts...and your family.

Oh, by the way, the music issue is tapering off as a main concern, but I am glad for the awareness of how wrong it is. When I play the radio, and hear 'garbage' of music, it is obvious how haram music can be. So I avoid it.

Sallam

ibnAbdullah87

10-04-2006, 05:39 PM

Why would you study other religions when your religion tells you about the other religions in detail. The Prophet :saw2: once seen Omar (radiyllahu anu) with one of the books of the Jews and he said in one narration are we confused about our religion and in another narration if Musa was alive today he would have no choice but to follow me. He also said that you might affirm something in their book which is wrong or you might deny something which is correct, so we should not be reading the books of the Jews and Christains. It is not from the way of the Prophet to call to Islam by arguing and showing the falts in the books of the people of the book through studying and using there own books but he used the Quran. The purpose is not the bash there books but to call them to Tawheed. And that is the way of the Prophets and messengers.

The Prophet allowed poetry, so do that in your free time and it is known from the Imams of the past and present that they do poetry and teach arabic from books of poetry. But I am surprised that their is still confusen about music the proofs should be enough, especaily the insturments, it may not be easy but it is something that the muslims not to give up.

samiha

10-04-2006, 05:47 PM

What is very disheartening, is to hear that nice music, with no words, is haram, and is evil. I cannot agree, even if all the pianos were burned. Music is music.

Lightning won't strike you if you pick up a bible or have someone pick it up and read in psalms that David=Dawood played music to God. Better yet, try Google search....

I have to say this, as a Muslim we beleive in the Bible but we believe that Quran is the final word of Allah and that the Bible has been adapted from the form it was revealed. Only the Quran is in it's true form.

This is out of respect, since I don't have a problem reading the Qur'an and also out of a bible....What I read is for learning more about God/Allah....and what the message is. Many non muslims do not have hang ups about reading anything....they just read...on the other hand, should a muslim pick up a bible, who knows what just might happen...heaven forbid...

Most scholors agree that a Muslim shouldn't read books of other faiths until he has STRONG conviction of his own or he may be mislead. Someone I know tried it and she now beleives Jesus was the son of Allah or something like that. :astag:

I do understand strong opinions about music. There are many other things worth spending time on.

Thank all of you for your time to help me understand that music is a very controversial subject. When haram is mentioned, I think of someone stealing, killing, hating, etc....and nice, quiet music never entered my mind as being something evil....

Look, drinking alcohol didn't fall in your catagories, does it mean it's halaal. Nope.

Wassalam.

Mrmuslim

10-07-2006, 05:17 PM

salaam alikom
Just wanted to share the story

A police officer in a Muslim country wrote the following letter to a Shaykh describing the events that led to his return to Allah. He recalls:

Seeing accidents and crash victims was a normal part of my day, but one incident was different.

My partner and I had parked on the shoulder of the highway and began to chat. In a random second, the scene shattered to the hideous sound of metal bodies becoming one. We threw our heads back to see what had happened: a head-on collision, the result of a vehicle slipping into the lane of the oncoming traffic.

You couldnt describe the carnage. Two young men sprawled in the first car, both in critical condition. We carried them gently away from the car and rested them on the ground.

Quickly we returned to assist the owner of the second car. He was dead. Back we went to the two young men lying side by side on the pavement.
My partner began dictating the Shahadah to them. â€œSay: La iIaha illAllah (there is no god but Allah), La iIaha illAllahâ

their tongues wouldnâ acknowledge. They started humming the hypnotic lyrics of some song. I was terrified. My partner had experience however and he kept repeating his instruction.

I stood watching, no movement, eyes locked. Never in my life had I seen anything similar to what was going on before me. In fact, Iâ€™ve never actually seen someone die, and never in such a satanic way.

My partner continued to instruct them to say the Shahadah but there was no use. The hum of their song came to a slow silence, slowly. The first one stopped and then the other. Not a stir. Dead.
We carried them to our patrol car, my partner made no effort to speak. Not a whisper between us two as we carried the corpses to the nearest hospital...

Dear brothers and sisters, Ubayy ibn Khalaf confronted Rasul Allah - sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam - one day with a rotted bone in his hand. He crushed it in front of his hands, let the wind blow it away and said, Muhammad do you claim that Allah will bring these ashes to life?!?"

Has not man considered how We created him from a drop of semen? Yet he is an open adversary! He makes something up to be compared with Us and forgets how he was created. He says, "Who will revive [our] bones after they have rotted away?

Allah replied Ubayy and everyone else who dares make the mistake:
Say 'The one Who raised them up in the first place will revive them. He is aware of all creation.'â€* (Surah YaaSeen 36: 77-79 (From Tafseer Ibn Katheer)

wa salaam alikom
Dont forget us in your Duaa

Karima

10-07-2006, 05:44 PM

Walakum sallam,

Can you clearify which song was sung? This is not to be sarcastic....but to indicate that it could have been a satanic song.

Other than that, the energy of your partner to get them to say the shehaddah and they didn't, is a shame.....very sad for the men who died.

Glory (Alhamdulillah) to (the only one) God (Allah) in the Highest and Peace (Sallam) to His People on Earth!

Sallam

samiha

10-09-2006, 11:09 PM

:salam2:

i have heard a story quite similar and it wasn't because the person couldn't say the shahadah, it was because music had a hold of his heart and so he wouldn't say it. If you are not commited to the Quran how do you expect to say it when you die?

fma6

10-10-2006, 12:28 AM

Assalamu Alaykum

im a first year university student and am surrounded by many muslims mashallah, however, even in this holy month of ramadan they fail to realize that music is HARAAM, as much as i try to tell them they do not get it ....

Muhammad Fairuzi

10-10-2006, 08:21 AM

Mrmuslim

10-11-2006, 02:18 AM

So thats means nasheed is haraam? coz its a form of music as well? I think music is not haraam as long as theres "no string" attached or any other music equipments that has stings. If nasheed is haraam as well, then someone should tell the moderator to ban any posting on nasheed.. :)

Question:
What is the ruling on Islamic nasheeds that are free of music?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

The clear saheeh texts indicate in a number of ways that it is permissible to recite poetry and listen to it. It was narrated in saheeh reports that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his noble Companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) listened to verse, recited it (as nasheed) and asked others to recite it, both when they were travelling and when they stayed at home, in their gatherings and whilst they were working, individually, as in the case of Hassaan ibn Thaabit, ‘Aamir ibn al-Akwa’ and Anjashah (may Allaah be pleased with them), and in unison, as in the hadeeth of Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) which describes the digging of the ditch (al-khandaq). Anas said:

When the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw how exhausted and hungry we were, he said (in verse):

“O Allaah, there is no life except the life of the Hereafter, so forgive the Ansaar and the Muhaajireen.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3/1043)

And in gatherings too: Ibn Abi Shaybah narrated with a hasan isnaad that Abu Salamah ibn ‘Abd al-Rahmaan said: “The Companions of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not speak in devious tones or in a soft manner. They used to recite verses in their gatherings, denouncing the affairs of their jaahiliyyah, but if it was the matter of their religion, they would become very serious and cautious (8/711).

This evidence indicates that nasheeds are permissible, whether recited individually or in unison. The word nasheed in Arabic means raising the voice when reciting verse and making the voice sound beautiful and gentle.

There are conditions to which attention must be paid with regard to this matter:

--Not using forbidden musical instruments in nasheed.

--Not doing it too much or making it the focus of the Muslim’s mind, occupying all his time, or neglecting obligatory duties because of it.

--Nasheed should not be recited by women, or include haraam or obscene speech.

--They should not resemble the tunes of the people of immorality and promiscuity.

--They should be free of vocal effects that produce sounds like those of musical instruments.

--They should not have moving tunes which make the listener feel “high” as happens to those who listen to songs. This is the case with many of the nasheeds which appear nowadays, so that the listeners no longer pay any attention to the good meaning of the words, because they are so entranced by the tunes. And Allaah is the Source of strength.

References:

Fath al-Baari, 10/553-554-562-563
Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah, 8/711
Al-Qaamoos al-Muheet, 411

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

aliff

10-11-2006, 09:15 PM

Salam

I have heard that music is haram ( but i heard that musics that involves voices of males/females promoting emotions ..etc) is haram.

I now listen to simple-plain music, music of Yanni mainly.. these musics doesnot have any voice,, just plain piano/keyboard with some other orchestra instrument offen reffered to as soothing or relaxing music.... can anybody confirm me if this kind of music is also HARAM ?? plz

ibnAbdullah87

10-11-2006, 09:54 PM

Insturments are not allowed because musical instruments is one of the things that the people will take as lawful and when you look at all the other things mentioned along with musical insturment are all haraam things.

The Prophet said (which means), "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allaah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." [Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 69, Number 494v].

Abu Hurayrah narrated that the Prophet said, what translated means, group of this nation will be transformed into monkeys and swine." They said, "Do not they testify that there is no god except Allaah and that Muhammed is His Messenger?" He said, "Yes. And also they fast pray and perform Hajj." They said, "Then, what is their problem?" He said, "They use musical instruments, drums and female singers. (One day) they will go to sleep after a night of drinking and having fun, In the morning, they will be transformed (by Allaah) into monkeys and swine." [Iughathat Al-Lahfan].

this hadeeth also mentions musical instrument along side a punishment in this worldly life.

Listening to instrument also can lead to dancing.

Imam Ibn Taymiyyah also said regarding the person, whose habit is to listen to music, "His state of emotions becomes less passionate when he hears the Qur'aan. On the contrary, when he listens to instruments of the devil (music), he dances a lot. If the prayer is established, he either prays while sitting down or performs it as fast as when the roaster picks seeds. He dislikes listening to the Qur'aan and does not find beauty in it while reciting it. He has no taste for the Qur'aan and feels no love for it or pleasure when it is read. Rather, he finds pleasure if he listens to Mukaa' or Tasdiyah. These are satanic pleasures and he is among those whom Allaah mentioned in the Ayah, And whosoever turns away from the remembrance of the Most Beneficent (Allaah), We appoint for him Satan to be a companion for him. [43:36]." [Awliyaa' Ar-Rahman].

I hope you found the answer to your question.

shpetim

10-12-2006, 02:18 AM

Asalamualikum, brothers and sisters.
I want to answer the question to sister Karima, inshallah.
I hope that we all remember the time when the prophet was a yong man(nearly 25) and he was caring the sheeps of his uncle (ebu talib). in a moment he was hearing sounds and woices from a house. So he wanted to go there and for 3 times Allah made him sleep. Why? beacuse He prepared him for prophet of all mankind. seems like the prophet had a desire to do something, i.e. to go and listen the music. So, evreybody agree with me that we all as a human beings have desires and chosies in our life. But, that dosent mean that those choises that we make are god for us and rightfull. So, we can ask again: why Allah doesn't make us sleep when we wants to here the music or to learn to play some instruments, if these choises are wrong? the answer is simple: Beacuse He (the Allmighty) dosen't prepare anymore nobody for prophet. These means that we all have the "Free Will" to make choises in our life. even I as human being, ho dont know to play any the instruments, if I want to learn to play, even in my 22 i will learn, beacuse i have mind and intelegence, and beacuse the Prophet pbuh. as a guidance for all human beings forbided the music, the satan know this and he will use all his power and our wiknes and give us desire to love the plaiyng and hearing difrent music. Now, u can ask how Bethowen could made his best 9th simphony, when he coulden't hear nothing? I will ask u, It was God that was showing to him the notes? I dont thinks so. So ho did?
And Mozart too, how he could play the piano, when he was very small kid, nearly in his 3rd yeras or 4th? the anwser is simple: It's tru and I belive that God gave him great mind and made him genius, but the point is for what or in witch things we use our brains or our intellegence. in these case Mozart used his brain to play the piano, witch I don't have a doubt that he coulded used for something else, for ex: to be a scientific man and to work hard and to find something great in some fields, or to aprove some results in biology or chemistry or astronomy, wich all of us will have a benefits. this is call a contribution for your own kind. For ex: Edison or Nikola Teslla, their aprovment for the light. they used their brains for goodnees, exept that they didnt were muslims, unfortenatly. Mozart could do somethin similar and mabe much beter , beacuse he had more brain than Edison or Teslla, but he chosed to play the piano and make symphonies. so, all of this has to do again with our "Free Will" wich God gave us from the moment that He created us as souls, before bodies.
Now, in the end i want to upologies to my sister if i sad something bad and she didnt felt god and warm, so i hope that she will forgive me And Allah to. But, remember my sister, if i mentioned something bad and those words make u feell bad, that was from me, beacuse all of us make mistakes all the time, but if i mentioned something good that made u feell warm and kind, that was from God/Allah.
lets hope all of us that we are going to work and make the best choises in our lifes, for best revards in this world and in the herafter. May Allah guide all of us. Amin.

amiratul_eman

10-12-2006, 04:31 AM

I think it is always good to remember that Allah is the creator of all things, and surely the creator is more knowledgeable than that which He created. Therefore, when Allah subhanahu wa ta3allah says something is haram, we should accept without questioning! I for one, trust the words of the companions of the prophet sallallahu 3alayhi wa sallam when they say that idle talk means singing, and when the scholars agree that musical instruments besides the dhaff are haram. After all, they are the companions of the prophet, and they've spent a good deal of their lives studying Islam. These are the same people who have interpreted many other things as haram, and we listen to them, so why not listen to them when it comes to music. We can't just pick and choose what we want from the religion. If God says it's wrong, then I'm going to listen, and I truly believe that those who interpreted it as haram know well what they were doing.

Also, I heard another story very similar to the one about the car crash. However, the story I heard only involves one man, and instead of not being able to say the shahada, this man was able to read Qur'an in a very pure voice before his death. It is because he spent so much of his life reciting the qur'an, that in his last moments before death, his most tired moments, when his soul was coming out, he was able to remember the words of Allah. A rare gift that I ask Allah to grant all of us. I'm sure this man never spent any time in playing an instrument, or singing. He spent his time trying to learn as much as possible about islam, and he found pleasure in doing so. God's words made him smile, and reading the qur'an must have been his favourtie past-time. Sure we can do other things, but why aren't we aiming for the best? Why aren't we aiming for jannatul firdous, the highest jannah. Why are we attached to the less important things.

Insha Allah this was a reminder for me, and anyone else who reads it. I too have a gift with the piano. But I have, over the years learnt to find other things which are more rewarding, and have become more pleasing to the heart. And sometimes I would ask the same question as Karima. But then I see other people who think the have a gift in attracting the opposite sex, or in drinking without getting drunk, and whole bunch of other pathetic things, and they're actually serious.. so I don't know if this helped anyone, but insha allah we are all guided on the straight path. Wallahu a3lam in anything I've said.

samiha

10-12-2006, 05:01 AM

Asslam.

Mashallah, very good reply.

Wassalam.

Karima

10-12-2006, 05:54 AM

Asalamualikum,

I respect your posts, and what has been said. There are no hard feelings of the opinions and statements against music. Again, I respect the views on this topic.

Sallam

ibnAbdullah87

10-12-2006, 06:26 AM

Yea but you are still disobeying Allah. And you should stop listening to music since the proofs have been made clear to you and stop following your desires or opinions. After what Allah and His Messenger say then there is no but I think or I feel after. After the proofs have been made clear if you have a different opinion or feeling keep it to yourself. This is not weather or not your faith changed, the fact is by listning to music you are desobeying Allah and His Messenger.

ibnAbdullah87

10-12-2006, 06:29 AM

Hold on I just checked your profil it says your christan this thread is geared towards muslim.

Kayote

10-12-2006, 06:53 AM

Salam,

Very nice posts from both shpetim & amiratul_eman.

Thankyou.

Salam

Karima

10-12-2006, 12:52 PM

Asalamualikum,

May Allah forgive those who judge. Thank all of you for your posts on this delicate subject of music.

Yea but you are still disobeying Allah. Who gives anyone this privledge to say with judgement who is doing what, when Allah is all knowing and all hearing? Allah is our judge and only Allah knows our hearts and intentions. May Allah forgive you for this statement.

this thread is geared towards muslim.
Exactly why I come to read and learn daily on this...Glad to have this site which is so positive about what Allah has for us through careful discernments of Mabsoot and other contributors whom share information which helps to give an accurate guidance and interpretation of Islam.

Sallam

Karima

10-12-2006, 01:05 PM

Asalamualikum,

This is a refresher reminder of why this web site is here....

Welcome to TurnToIslam.Com. We are dedicated to bringing the latest Islamic videos, media and information to help challenge the negative propoganda spread by the media and to educate people about Islam and the Muslim World. The hatred some people might show towards Islam and the ill-practices of some Muslims should not hinder a Person from seeking the truth!

May Allah reward you, Mabsoot for this Web Site!....and for discussing all forms of questions about 'life' to be on the right path towards Allah.

Sallam

amiratul_eman

10-12-2006, 01:40 PM

shpetim

10-13-2006, 03:22 AM

SELAM ALEJKUM

samiha

10-13-2006, 03:39 AM

Since we're on the topic, I'm kind of new to this site. Does anyone know where I can find background information on the people who manage it. For example, someone mentioned Mabsoot... does this guy have background education in the field of Islam? Who's incharge, and how do I find out more about them?

:salam2:

hehe... who's in charge. sorry i had to smile the internet is so full of mysteries that you could talk to a person allllll your lives yet not know them. ;) Here's is Brother Mabsoot's intro. http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121

:wasalam:

aliff

10-31-2006, 02:19 PM

Assalamu A'laikum,

This has been a wonderful post. i have now stopped listening to music ( after quite some struggling). Plz, make doas for me so that i can keep it this way.

Salam.

ibnAbdullah87

10-31-2006, 10:20 PM

Alhamdulillah that you stopped listening to music after the clear proofs have reached you. And my Allah increase you in good and reward you for leaving that which Allah is displeased with.

Abu AbdurRahman

10-31-2006, 11:56 PM

Assalamu A'laikum,

This has been a wonderful post. i have now stopped listening to music ( after quite some struggling). Plz, make doas for me so that i can keep it this way.

Salam.

walaikom salam,

Alhamdulilah may Allah give us all the strength of Eman and patience to follow his commands and abstain from all that he has prohibited. You are in my duas :)

Wasalam

Mu2min

Saifadin_Qutuz

11-01-2006, 06:57 PM

:bismillah1:

salam.

I actually am confused as to what to do in life. Wether all the music is haram or not. Wether is is right and that isnt. You see, in history there are notable famous and great muslim leaders that have at least listened to singing.
For example, the Abbasid Caliph Haroun Al Rasheed.
Also, when the prophet :saw: reached Al Madina, the people started singing and playing some sort of music.

May alla enlighten us.

ibnAbdullah87

11-01-2006, 07:14 PM

That hadeeth has been declared da'eef (weak) and as for Haroun Al Rasheed then he is human and we do not follow anyone in error if he did listen to music. We do not take actions or statement of others as proof for something if they contradict the sunnah. Go back and carefully read through the proofs and it should be clear no reason for confusion inshallah

Saifadin_Qutuz

11-01-2006, 07:19 PM

inhshalla :)
But what I meant is, did that person (haroun al rasheed) know that music is haram and diliberatly did it? I mean he is a person far greater than doing something without logic. But as you said, we are all humans, and we are all not perfect :)

yafash

11-01-2006, 10:12 PM

:salam2:
i ws intriged by the discussion on this topic, may allah assist us and guide us.
let us be careful, the prophet(saw) said: making MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS HALAAL, this clearly means it is haraam, musical instrument would be all the machinery us to make musical notes i.e. drums, piano. and what ever performs a similar fxn. only the daff is allowed for women and on olnly specific occasions, and actually the daff is not really a tambourine, it is like a toneless drum, not really musical.
pls let us keep ourselves away from what is forbidden, the devil has a way of making things look differently. let us be careful,
we r not perfect may allah assist us to adhere.
amin.
:wasalam:

bluey

11-06-2006, 11:06 PM

Salaams -

I am still confused but have made my choice anyway with regards to music.

I just want to know - are all these views that Music is Haraam be that of those who call themselves Salafis?

OmarTheFrench

11-06-2006, 11:18 PM

The Prophet(saw) has said:"The one who innovates a good innovation in Islam has its reward and the reward of those who would practice with it until the Day of Judgement **without lessening the rewards of those who practice with it. The one who innovates the innovation of misguidance, would take the sin for it and the sin of those who practice with it until the Day of Judgement **without lessening the sin of those who practice with it"

When the music has da`wa goal or talk positive about islam can be a good innovation ?(Allah knows better.)

samiha

11-06-2006, 11:37 PM

I don't know but I am pretty sure NO innovation is good when it comes to ibbadah and Islam. The Salafs did not use music as dawah. Music is HARAAM, plus, what point are you trying to get across to the non-Muslims? That we are just like you, music is allowed within restraint? FYI- Alchoholics usually begin as casual drinkers.

Allah knows best, and perhaps someone could clarify the above hadith. I think that some scholars have said in commentary that, any innovation that follows the Sunnah of the Prophet pbuh is labled as such, BUT THAT was about the comment of Umar (radiallahu anhu) and the tarawih prayers in congregation.

Allah knows the best. May we be guided to righteousness. Ameen.

OmarTheFrench

11-06-2006, 11:50 PM

You can clarify the Hadith.

Its like Aid al Mouloud who are an innovation,but good innovation.(Allah knows best)

samiha

11-06-2006, 11:56 PM

A common innovation is the Mawlid/Milaad (celebrating the Prophet pbuh's birthday)

AND is an innovation to be disabandoned according to many BIG scholars like sheik bin bazz.

HERE IS THE LINK>>>>>>>>

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3405&highlight=milaad

OmarTheFrench

11-07-2006, 12:03 AM

Sheik bin baz the Wahhabi scholar ?

OmarTheFrench

11-07-2006, 12:25 AM

But if its him sorry the Wahhabis scholars aren't my first references

samiha

11-07-2006, 12:31 AM

I don't know what Wahhabi means, srry! blame it on youth and ignorance. However, I do know he is an Imam of Ahlas Sunnah Wa Jamaat.

He follows Quran and Sunnah, and ALL his rulings are based on such, and that is all I need in order to believe in him.

Read this...

The Biography of Sheik Binn Bazz (http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2495)

OmarTheFrench

11-07-2006, 12:50 AM

I know him...

But the Doctrine of the Wahhabi sect isn't mine.(Allah know best).

BintMuhammad

11-07-2006, 01:25 AM

Asalamualikum,

Can you prove to me that God/Allah did not give me the gift of the ability to play the piano?

Sallam

Allah swt gave us the TALENT for whatever but sometimes those talents are acutally a test for us.

OmarTheFrench

11-07-2006, 01:39 AM

BintMuhammad

11-07-2006, 02:23 AM

ibnAbdullah87

11-07-2006, 02:26 AM

Akhi the hadeeth does not say a good innovation but a sunnah. The Prophet warned against innovation in his friday khutbahs

bluey

11-07-2006, 02:37 AM

Im glad u said that bro OmartheFrench....

Indeed "Salafi" - distinct from the early salafs during the Prophets s.a.w's time - references should not be the main or only point of reference.

ibnAbdullah87

11-07-2006, 03:03 AM

Akhi you should not speak without knowledge saying wahhabi this and wahhabi that. What makes someone wahhabi because he/she does not do shirk with Allah, or they follow all of the salaf instead of blindly following one Imaam or they if it is a man grows his beard or they raise their hands in the slow or move the finger or not move the finger this is not wahhabism this is Islam the Sunnah and the Islam has became strange so people feel they need to give it a bad name. You should go to www.thewahhabimyth.com it will hopeful remove some of the doubts.

ibnAbdullah87

11-07-2006, 03:34 AM

The way the kufar accuse Islam of being a religion of Opression is the like the way the innovaters or the laymen of the muslims accuse the people of the sunnah and lable them as wahhabis, it is out of ignorance or following ones desires and the sunnah opposing those desires. Even if you for some reason think that Shaykh Bin Baz was an innovater that does not mean you do not agree with what he says if he is correct and in this case of music he is correct because the Messenger of Allah warned us about music and many other Imaam long before Shaykh Bin Baz and Shaykh Muhammad Bin Abdul-Wahhab. But this thread is not about wahhbis or who is an innovater but it is about music and it being haraam. Inshallah I will start two other forum on Islamic Discussion one about salafia and another A Clarification of Doubts Concerning the Life of Shaykhul-Islaam Muhammad Ibn ‘Abdul-Wahhaab and this is not the place to talk about this let get back on topic music is not part of Islam.

Karima

11-07-2006, 11:53 AM

Asalamualikum,

Confused!!!!! Why then do my muslim friends who are very conservative.....ask me to teach their daughters how to play the piano? Also one of them in their native country took piano lessons while growing up in their family.....a culture of class thing...

Singing....hummmmmmmmmm former Cat Stevens....Yusuf.....still sings for Allah...........WHY CANNOT I play the piano for ALLAH?

This thread will never convince me that music is haram. Only Allah can be the judge of our motives for music......

I wonder what kind of effect this topic has on the non-muslims searching for Islam? Is this a 'sign' of warning....for beautiful music to be haram?

My interest in Islam has not wavered, except when music is discussed. I cannot believe how it can be of satan....this all blows my mind....that Islam teaches this. Brakes seem to go into affect.....sorry, but it's automatic.....

Imad

11-07-2006, 12:23 PM

Imad

11-07-2006, 12:45 PM

Assalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh,

Dear Sister Karima, the most important thing for us muslims is to say the truth, because Allah subhanauwatala says : " Say the truth from your Lord". One of the revert said: " Alhamdullilah i came to know the islam before knowing the muslims"

islam and muslims are to different words. The one is infalible ( islam) and the other is not infalible ( muslims). islam is a religion from Allah and muslims are those who try to follow the rules of this religion, but they can make mistakes.

It's like the terrorists who say they are muslims, but are terrorising innocent people. they have made big mistakes, but you can not compare islam and the terrorists and say:" Look to the terrorists they are terrorising people so why is it not allowed for me also to terrorise people?""

Every muslim will say: "This is a rediculous question? "

So please don't say: "Singing....hummmmmmmmmm former Cat Stevens....Yusuf.....still sings for Allah...........WHY CANNOT I play the piano for ALLAH?"

I know boming innocent people is a much bigger sin than singing with musical instruments, but you have to keep in mind that singing with musical instruments is also a sin.

If you want to play it's your choice, but rules are rules and we have to say the truth.

May Allah bless all muslims.

Wassalmoelaikoem warahmtullahi wabaraktuh,

Imad

Karima

11-07-2006, 01:07 PM

Asalamualikum,

In the midst of all of these posts on music, I sensed a thread of peace coming from your post. I really liked what you mentioned about someone coming to know Islam before knowing a muslim.....and them being 2 different things.....infallible, fallible....

May Allah direct us to his perfect peace.

Salam

Abdul-Raheem

11-07-2006, 01:28 PM

:salam2:

I was taught from an early age that music is haram. Yet so many people listen to it despite knowing this FACT, while others refute this and instill a fake sense of ignorance to make themselves feel less guilty about it.

OmarTheFrench

11-07-2006, 03:38 PM

Assalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh,

Dear brother Omarthefrench you are a revert so please gain more knowledgd about islam. It's important to know who is right and who is wrong, so gaining knowledge is very important. I want to clarify something for you and this is the word : " Wahabi"
Before explaining to you the meaning of this word i have for you a question, so please answer:

" Who is el-Wahaab? "

Thank you very much.

Wassalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh,

Imad

I dont need lot of knoweldge to know that Wahhabi reject the 4 Big schools,I dont need lot of knowledge to know that for Wahhabi the Mutzalites are kufur and the Asharism are egared.

The savant Wahhabi aren't my first source of advice but I will never say that they are kufur like they do with others Muslims.(Allah knows best)

ibnAbdullah87

11-07-2006, 03:48 PM

Did you just make takfeer on the people of the sunnah, please bring on proof that they are kufar, and i'm only speaking of the "Wahhabis" and for the and no they do not say you can not follow the four school but encourage take the proof when it comes. But we know many of the salafy scholars do follow one of the madhabs in figh and Shaikh Muhammad Bin Abdul-Wahhab was Hambali. So you see you are speaking without knowledge and that is a sin. So it is better for you to learn and keep silent that well be better for you because without knowledge you will misguide yourself and other. You then contradict yourself by saying I would never call them kufar like they say about other muslims after you just call them kufar. What you have to know is no they do not say anyone who is not salafi is a kafir and the group that they call kufar are once whos kufr is clear and they say it through sound knowledge, unlike who you are doing they use proof you have not used a single proof. I think that you have made a mistake between the people of the sunnah and the kawarij and you should go on the website that I told you to go to and it will clarify things for you then afterward speak www.thewahhabimyth.com you should also get the book if you can same title then also get the book about the kawarij

OmarTheFrench

11-07-2006, 03:58 PM

ibnAbdullah87

11-07-2006, 04:07 PM

Then here is the position of The Four Imaams themselfs

The Four Imams On Music

The Opinions Of The Great Imams

rom Abu Bilaal Mustafa al-Kanadi's (rahimahullah) book on Music and Singing

The View Of The Tabieen Imams And Scholars After Them

The view held by the companions was generally adhered to by the taabieen and their followers, the four imams and the great majority of dependable Islamic scholars up to the present time.From among the tabieen and their followers, there are such authorities as Mujaahid, Ikrimah, An-Nakhai and Al-Hassan Al-Basri.(107)

Imam Abu Haneefah

Imam Abu Haneefah (108) has perhaps the harshest view of the four famous Imams of jurisprudence. His school of thought is the strictest, for he detested singing and considered it sinful. As for his disciples, they have explicitly confirmed the prohibition of listening to all musical amusements and pastimes, including wind instruments (mazaameer) (109) all types of tambourines, hand drums(dufoof) (110) and even the striking of sticks (al-qadeeb).They have asserted that such actions constitute disobedience to Allah and that the performer of such action is sinful, therefore necessitating rejection of his testimony (111). They have further stated that it is incumbent upon the Muslim to struggle to avoid listening to such things, even if he were passing by or stationed near them (without any wilful intention). Abu Haneefah's closest disciple, Abu Yoosuf, stated that if the sound of musical instruments (maazif) and amusements (malaahi) were heard coming from a house, the house could be entered without permission of its owners (112). The justification for this is that the command regarding the prohibition abominable things (munkaaraat) is mandatory, and cannot be established if such entering rests upon the permission of the residents of the premises.This is the madhhab (position) of the rest of the Kufic scholars as well, such as Ibraheem An-Nakhai, Ash-Shabi Hammad and Ath-Thowri. They do not differ on this issue. The same can be said of the general body of jurisprudents of Al-Basrah (114).

Imaam Maalik

It is related by Ibnul-Jowzi that Ishaaq bin Eesaa At-Tabaa asked Imaam Maalik bin Anas (115), the leading jurisprudent of Madeenah, about the view of the people of madeenah regarding singing (ghinaa).He replied, "In fact, that is done by the sinful ones." Abut-teeb At-Tabari said, "As for Maalik bin Anas, he truly did prohibit singing and listening to it." He further related that Maalik said, "If one purchased a slave-girl (116) and found her to be a professional singer, he could return her to the original owner for reimbursement on the claim of having found fault in the merchandise." (117) The ruling of prohibition (tahreem) is generally agreed upon by the scholars of Madeenah. The Maaliki jurisprudent and commentator, Al-Qurtubi, reports Ibn Khuwayz Mandaad as saying that Imam Maalik had learned singing and music as a small boy until his mother encouraged him to leave it for a study of the religous sciences. He did, and his view became that such things were prohibited.(118) Al-Qurtubi confirmed Maaliks view by saying that the only exception to this general ruling was the type of innocent songs such as those sung to placate the camels during travel, or during hard labour or boredom or during times of festivity and joy, such as the Eed days and weddings-the latter to the accompaniment of a simple daff (hand drum). Al-Qurtubi then said, "As for that which is done in our day, by way of the (blameworthy) innovations (bidah) of the Sufi mystics in their addition to hearing songs to the accompaniment of melodious instruments such as flutes, string instruments such as flutes, string instruments etc such is haraam (forbidden) (119).

Imaam Shafi'ee

In the book, Aadaabul Qadaa, As-Shafiee is reported as saying, "Verily, song is loathsome (makrooh); it resembles the false and vain thing (al-baatil). The one who partakes of it frequently is an incompetent fool whose testimony is to be rejected." (121) His closest and most knowledgeable disciples clearly stipulate that his position on this issue is that of prohibition (tahreem)and they rebuke those who attribute its legality to him (122). This is confirmed by the later Shafiite scholar, Ibn Hajar Al-Haythami. He related that one of the Ash-Shaafiites disciples, Al-Haarith Al-Muhaasibi (d.243 H) said, "Song is haraam, just as the carcass (maytah)." (123). Further more, the statement that singing is haraam is found in the treatise, Ash-Sharh Al-Kabeer, by the authoritative Shaffiite Scholar, Ar-Raafiee (d.623 H). This is further corroborated by the accomplished Shaaffi'ite jurisprudent, Imam An-Nawawi (d.676 H) in his Rowdah) (124). Such is the correct view of the dependable scholars of the Shaffi'ite madhab. However, due to limited knowledge and personal fancy and desire, a few of their later day scholars disagree with this view. (125)

Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal

Imaam Ahmads (126) position regarding this issue has been narrated in detail by the Hanbalite jurisprudent and Quranic commentator, Abul Faraj Ibnul-Jowzi (d.597H.) in his treatise, Tablees Iblees (Sataan's deception). He tells us that ghinaa during Ahmads era consisted primarily of a rhymed, rythmical chanting (inshaad)of poems (127) whose puropse was to lead people to a pious, abstentious way of life. However, when such chanters began to vary their simple style to one of a throbbing, affected melody, the narrations regarding Ahmad began to differ.His own son and student, Abdullah, relates that his father said, "Singing (128) sprouts hypocricy in the heart;it doesnt please me." The scholar, Ismaeel bin Ishaaq ath Thaqafi, reports that Ahmad was questioned regarding ones listening to those poems (qasaaid) to which he replied, "I despise it, for it is a bidaah(innovation). Don't sit down to listen to its reciters.'Abul-Haarith relates that Ahmad said, "At-Taghyeer (129) is an innovation" whereupon it was said, "But it sensitizes and softens the heart". Ahmad rejoined, "It is a bid'ah (blameworthy innovation)."

Yaqoob Al-Haashimi narrates that Ahmad said, "At-taghyeer is a recent innovation" and Yaqoob bin Gayyath reports him a s saying that he despised at-taghyeer and prohibited ones listening to it.(130) Ibnul-Jowzi then mentioned some narrations related by Abu Bakr Al-Khallaal and Ahmads son Saalih, which indicate Ahmads not being averse to poetry sessions. It is related that Ahmad heard a singer (qawwal) and didn't reproach him, whereupon Saalih said to him, "Oh father, didn't you used to criticise and censure such a thing?" Ahmad replied, "That was because I was told that they were doing reproachable things, so I despised it; as for this, I do not dislike it" Ibnul-Jowzi commented at this point, "Some of the scholars of our (Hanbalite) school mention that Abu Bakr Al-Khallaal (d.311 H) and his disciple, Abdul-Azeez, permitted singing (ghinaa).Such a statement refers to the spiritual poems (qasaaid zuhduyyaat) which were prevalent during their time. This is precisely the type of singing which was not disliked by Ahmad (as previously mentioned)" (131).

Ahmad bin Hanbal attests to this in the instance where he was asked regarding a deceased person who left behind him a son and a professional singing) slave-girl (132). The son then needed to sell her. Ahmad said that she was not to be sold on the basis of her being a singer. Upon this it was said to him that, (as a singer), she was worth 30000 dirhams, whereas if she were sold only on the basis of her being simply a slave-girl" Ibnul Jowzi explained, "The reason Ahmad said this is because the singing slave-girl doesn't sing spiritual poems (qasaaid zuhdiyaat); rather she sings throbbing lyrics which incite passion in ones being.This is proof that such singing is haraam, for if it were not so, the incurred loss of the orphans sons wealth would not be permissible (133). Furthermore, it is reported by the jurisprudent Al-Marwazi that Ahmad bin Hanbal said, "The earnings of the effeminate (mukhannath) singer are foul (khabeeth) because he doesn't sing spiritual poems, but rather, he sings erotic poetry (al-ghazal) in a licentious, cooing manner." Ibnul-Jowzi concluded that it is obvious from what has preceded that the variant narrations relating to Ahmad's dislike of (karaahah) or permission for singing depended upon the type of singing that was meant. As for the type of singing which is popular today, (134) it would be forbidden according to Ahmad's view. If only he could see what the people have added to it by way of innovation.(135)

In conclusion, the general consensus of the companions, Taabieen and the following generations of Islamic scholars up to the present day, including the four Imams, points to the ruling of prohibition of music and song (other than the exceptions to be mentioned later).

From Abu Bilaal Mustafa al-Kanadi's (rahimahullah) book on Music and Singing

Notes

(107) See pp.67-68 of Kaffur Raa; Al-Qurtubis tafseer, vol.19, p.51 and Shaykh Saalih Fowzaan's Al-Ilaam bi Naqdi Kitaabil Hallaali wal Haraam, pp.72-74.

(108) The first of the four famous imaams.He was born in Koofa, Iraq in the 80th year of the Hijrah. He died in Baghdad in the year 150H see Adh-Dhahabis Seeyar Alaamin Nubalaa, vol.6, pp.390-403.

(109) Such as flutes, pipes, horns and related wind instruments.

(110) Small hand drums without steel jangles.This permitted type is to be used on certain restricted occassions as designated by the sunnah, the details of which will follow.

(111) Testimony given by witnesses concerning matters or crimes involving punishments is only accepted from trustworthy, obedient Muslims.

(112) In shariah, the mere suspicion of vice is not sufficient to warranat invasion of privacy by the authorities.Here, however, the violation is not confined to the privacy of the home and should be prevented, even forcibly, to avoid corruption of society.

(113) Quoted from "Ownul Mabood Sharhu Sunan Abi Dawood", vol.13, pp.273-274.

(114) Stated by Abut Teeb Taahir At-Tabari and quoted in Al-Qurtubis Al-Jaamili Ahkaamil Quraan, vol.14, p.55.

(115) He was born at Madeenah in the year 93 of the Hijrah and died there in 179H. For details of his life and times, see Qaadi Ayyads Tarteebul Madaarik, vol.1, pp.107-147.

(116) In the time of Prophet Muhammad (saw), the world economy was almost completely based upon the institution of slavery. Wisdom and foresight demanded a gradual elimination of this deeply rooted social system. The Islamic method was to limit the ways in which slaves could be taken to only one-jihaad (lawful warfare), while at the same time imposing conditions under which a slave must be freed and encouraging the freeing of believing slaves as an act of worship which brings one closer to Allah. Mistreatment of slaves was strictly prohibited and they were always entitled to respect as human beings. These guidelines protecting slaves are still applicable today.

(117) The previous sayings related to Maalik were quoted from Ibnul-Jowzis Talbees, p.29.

(118) Al-Jaamili Ahkaamil Quraan, vol.14, p.55

(119) Ibid, vol.14, p.54.

(120) He was born 150 H In Gazzah in Palestine. He died and was buried in Cairo, 204 H. Details of his life and works are chronicled in Al-Bayhaqis Manaaqibush Shaafiee.

(121) See Al-Qurtubis tafseer, vol.14, p.55 and Ibnul-Jowzis Talbees Iblees, p.231.Also refer to footnote no.111.

(122) See Ownul Mabood, vol.13, p.274.

(123) Designates the carcass of the animal which has not been slaughetered in a manner acceptable to the shariah, but has died in a manner rendering it unlawful for food, such as dying from a disease, accident, naturally or by being hit by a blow, etc. However, the skin of such an animal may be used after proper curing.

(124) Kaffur Raaa.p.61.

(125) Talbees iblees, pp.230-231.A sample of such scholars along with a refutation of their position will follow in the next section of this work.

(126) He was born in Baghdad, 164 H and died there in 241 H.See the excellent biography of his life

(127) In Arabic these are called qasaaiduz zuhd.

(128) "Singing" here means without musical accompaniment.

(129) Indicates a change in the state of mind or disposition of a person who appears "overcome" by the mention (dhikr) of God in supplication (duaa) performed in a humble, humiliating stance. Those who partake in this experience of being "overcome" are moved to extreme delight or grief by the manner in which such poetry is delivered.It is usually delivered in an affected, throbbing style which moves them to dance and gyrate to the beat and melody of such rythmic poems. Because of this "change' (taghyeer) which overcomes them, they were called al-mughayyarah. Refer to Talbees Iblees, p.330.

(130) Talbees Iblees, p.228.

(131) All of these scholars, including Ahmad, didn't not mind a certain type of chanting, singing and recitation of poetry or stories, etc without musical accompaniment or other prohibited aspects.

(132) Refer to footnote no.116.

(133) The loss incurred by selling the slave girl not as singer but as an ordinary worker.

(134) This statement was made during the 6th century of the Islamic era. Therefore, what could be said of what we hear and see of music and singing today!

(135) Talbees Iblees, pp.228-229.

OmarTheFrench

11-07-2006, 04:21 PM

Jazakallah khairan for your text brother.

Question :

Nous avons entendu dire qu'il y a, chez certains savants musulmans, une opinion disant que le chant et la musique sont autorisés en islam. Quel est votre avis sur le sujet ?

Réponse :

En islam, il y a certaines catégories de musiques qui sont autorisées à l'unanimité, d'autres musiques qui sont interdites à l'unanimité, enfin certaines musiques qui font l'objet de divergences d'opinions parmi des savants musulmans.

A) Ce qui fait l'unanimité et n'est pas concerné par ce débat :

Ce qu'il faut d'emblée dire c'est que ce qui fait débat est seulement la question de savoir s'il est permis de faire ou d'écouter des chants ou de la musique en tant que divertissement, donc en tant qu'acte permis (mubâh) en soi, acte pour lequel il ne peut y avoir de récompense dans l'au-delà que par rapport à l'intention de se reposer pour pouvoir à nouveau mieux agir dans le bien. Cependant, il n'y a pas débat à propos du fait d'écouter ou de faire du chant ou de la musique en tant qu'actes cultuels en soi, en tant qu'actes qui serviraient directement à se rapprocher de Dieu : il n'y a pas débat car une telle perception est erronée à l'unanimité des savants (Islâm aur mûssîqâ, Muftî Muhammad Shafî', avec annotations de Cheikh Abd ul-Mu'izz, p. 291, p. 294).

Cette précision faite, il faut aussi dire que, même lorsque chant et musique sont pris comme divertissements, les cas suivants sont eux aussi hors du cadre du débat car faisant l'unanimité chez les ulémas. En effet, attachés à un cadre éthique et à une certaine vision de la vie, les musulmans sont d'accord pour dire que les cas suivants (qu'ils concernent le chant seul ou l'instrumentation musicale seule ou le chant accompagné d'une instrumentation musicale) sont hors du cadre éthique :
1) quand le contenu du chant manque aux principes musulmans (appel à la violence, grossièreté, obscénité, éloge de l'alcool, invitation à l'adultère, etc.) ;
2) quand, à côté du chant ou de la musique, se trouve un ou plusieurs éléments qui contreviennent aux principes de l'islam (ambiance malsaine, nudité, scènes obscènes, etc.) ;
3) quand chanter ou écouter le chant ou la musique est fait à un moment ou d'une façon qui entraîne un manquement dans ses devoirs vis-à-vis de Dieu ou de ses parents, etc. (pas de respect pour les horaires des prières obligatoires, délaissement des parents, manquements aux devoirs de son épouse ou de ses enfants, etc.) ;
4) quand on se laisse aller à une inversion dans l'échelle de ses valeurs et qu'au lieu que le divertissement reste un moment temporaire et secondaire permettant de se prélasser pour pouvoir ensuite mieux et de nouveau se consacrer à l'objectif de la vie (se souvenir de Dieu, L'aimer, développer sa spiritualité, agir pour le bien de la société), c'est le chant qui prend, dans l'esprit, le cœur et les actes de sa vie, la place qui est réservé à d'autres choses.

Ces points-ci sont donc hors du cadre du débat. Ce sont les autres types de chants et de musique qui font l'objet du débat que nous allons évoquer.

B) Ce qui est concerné par le débat à propos du chant et de la musique :

Pourquoi y a-t-il débat ? L'islam interdirait-il les divertissements ? Non, bien au contraire : le divertissement fait partie de l'existence humaine et l'islam ne l'interdit pas ; cependant il demande que les musulmans le fassent dans une mesure saine et équilibrée. Or, le divertissement a ceci de particulier par rapport à d'autres activités que, ne causant que du plaisir et de la détente, il peut facilement mener peu à peu le joueur à devenir paresseux et insouciant de ses devoirs (vis-à-vis des hommes ou vis-à-vis de Dieu). On peut ainsi remarquer qu'il est des divertissements qui, une fois qu'une personne se met à les pratiquer, se mettent – pour reprendre l'expression de Ben Halima – à occuper une bonne partie de sa "mémoire vive" : même après le temps passé dans ces divertissements, il devient très difficile à cette personne de se concentrer dans la prière, les invocations et la lecture du Coran, ces activités spirituelles perdant leur goût et devenant "lourdes" (voir Six leçons pour les jeunes, inspirées de Sourate Youssef, Ben Halima Abderraouf, Le Figuier, p. 8). De plus, ces divertissements absorbent une bonne partie du temps de la personne, détournant celle-ci d'activités infiniment plus profitables – telles qu'une promenade, la pratique d'un sport, des visites, des activités associatives – voire même d'activités essentielles – devoirs scolaires, service de la famille, etc. C'est pour lui éviter cela que l'islam a offert au musulman un cadre orientant ses divertissements.
"… Tout ce par quoi le musulman se divertit est "bâtil" sauf le fait qu'il tire à l'arc, le fait qu'il éduque son cheval, et le fait qu'il joue avec sa famille, car cela relève de la vérité ("al-haqq")" (rapporté par At-Tirmidhî, n° 1637). Certains musulmans ont cru que le terme "bâtil" signifiait ici "interdit", alors qu'il est ici employé par opposition à "haqq" ("vérité") et qu'il signifie donc "inutile", dans le sens où le divertissement autre que ces trois-là n'est ni interdit, ni déconseillé, ni recommandé ni obligatoire, il reste juste permis en soi et ne rapporte aucune récompenses auprès de Dieu (voir ce que Ash-Shawkânî a écrit à ce sujet : Nayl al-awtâr, tome 8, p. 248). D'ailleurs il n'y a pas que ces trois divertissements qui fassent exception : tout divertissement qui contribue lui aussi à atteindre un objectif voulu par l'islam fait exception et n'est pas inutile ; ainsi le Prophète a-t-il invité Aïcha à regarder le jeu des Abyssiniens, fait autre que les trois divertissements sus-cités. Un autre Hadîth dénombre ainsi quatre divertissements qui font exception. Cet autre Hadîth emploie d'ailleurs, pour qualifier des divertissements autres que ceux qui font exception, le terme "lahw" au lieu de "bâtil" (voir As-Sahîha, n° 315). Il est vrai que, parmi ces divertissements autres que ceux faisant exception, il en est qui sont "interdits en soi" et sont donc à délaisser systématiquement ; cependant, les autres restent "lahw", c'est-à-dire "futiles" – dans le sens de "neutres" : ils ne rapportent ni récompense ni péché –, et restent donc permis en soi.

La question qui se pose est seulement de savoir si le chant et la musique sont des divertissements qui relèvent de la catégorie "à délaisser systématiquement" ou qui relèvent de la catégorie "neutres, permis en soi du moment qu'ils sont utilisés avec modération". S'ils sont à délaisser systématiquement (harâm mutlaqan), cela est à rapprocher du cas du jeu de trictrac tel qu'il est compris par la majorité des savants : ce jeu est systématiquement à éviter parce que susceptible de créer chez celui qui se met à y jouer un fort attachement (huwa mazinna lis-sadd 'an dhikr-illâh wa 'an-is-salât – yad'û qalîluhû ilâ kathîrih) ; même si quelqu'un se sent capable de ne pas en devenir accro, la règle est qu'il doit s'en abstenir. Par contre, s'ils sont permis en soi (mubâh fî nafsih, yahrum bil-'âridh), cela veut dire qu'en soi on peut les pratiquer mais qu'il faut arriver à le faire dans le cadre éthique voulu et avec modération ; cela est alors à rapprocher du cas du jeu de trictrac comme le perçoivent ces quelques savants shafiites qui pensent que ce jeu est en soi permis et qu'il ne devient interdit que dans le cas où on le joue avec une mise d'argent, ou bien où on le joue d'une façon qui détourne concrètement de l'orientation de la vie, ou bien où on y devient accro.

Pour reprendre les mots de Muftî Muhammad Shafî', la question du chant et de la musique "a fait l'objet de longs débats entre des savants musulmans de ces derniers siècles" (Islâm aur musîqâ, p. 87). Ici, nous allons aborder d'abord le cas du chant en tant que tel, ensuite celui de l'instrumentation musicale.

B.1) Le chant seul (al-ghina-l-mujarrad) :

Par "chant seul", il faut comprendre "le chant sans accompagnement musical". Mais, déjà, qu'entend-on par "chant" ?
B.1.1) Il y a le fait de seulement prononcer des vers ou des phrases présentant des assonances et de les prononcer en modulant harmonieusement sa voix ; ce genre de poèmes est aussi parfois appelé "chant".
B.1.2) Et puis il y a le "chant" véritable, à propos duquel on s'exerce à améliorer sa voix, et que l'on chante parfois seul, parfois en public, mais qui ne contient aucun propos et aucun accompagnement contraire à l'éthique musulmane.
B.1.3) On désigne aussi parfois sous le nom de "chant" ce qui est destiné à réveiller certaines pulsions chez l'homme : il s'agit de chants dont les propos sont contraires à l'éthique musulmane (et qui relèvent donc du point A, cité au tout début).

Le type de "chant" B.1.1 est autorisé à l'unanimité (Islâm aur musîqâ, p. 340), tandis que le type B.1.3 est interdit à l'unanimité. C'est le type B.1.2 qui fait l'objet d'avis divergents entre les savants :
# Certains savants hanafites et hanbalites pensent que cela est interdit, d'autres que cela est fortement déconseillé (Al-Fiqh al-islâmî wa adillatuh, tome 4 p. 2664). Ces savants se fondent sur le Hadîth : "Le chant fait croître l'hypocrisie dans le cœur" (rapporté par Abû Dâoûd, n° 4927). Certes, cette parole n'est pas authentique en tant que Hadîth du Prophète (comme l'a écrit Al-Irâqî, dhayl al-ihyâ, tome 2 p. 444), mais son contenu est approuvé par cette parole de Aïcha : "Abû Bakr s'est rendu chez nous alors que deux petites filles ansarites chantaient en répétant ce que les Ansârs avaient dit lors de la campagne de Bu'âth. Elles n'étaient pas des chanteuses. Abû Bakr dit : "Le son du diable dans la maison du Messager de Dieu ?" Cela se passait un jour de fête (Eid), et le Prophète lui dit : " Abû Bakr, chaque peuple a son jour de fête, et aujourd'hui c'est le nôtre" (rapporté par Al-Bukhârî, n° 909 etc., Muslim, n° 892). Voyez : si Aïcha a tenu à préciser qu'elles chantaient mais qu'elles n'étaient pas des chanteuses, c'est parce qu'elle savait que le chant [type B.1.2] est interdit ou fortement déconseillé ; elle voulait donc dire qu'elles ne faisait que réciter d'une voix mélodieuse mais naturelle des poèmes [donc que c'était un "chant" de type B.1.1] et non un chant tel qu'en font les professionnels (type B.1.2), lequel est justement interdit ou déconseillé. De plus, Abû Bakr a bien qualifié ce chant de "son du diable", ce qui montre comment il considérait le chant. Enfin, le Prophète n'a pas nié que le chant mérite ce qualificatif, il a simplement toléré ce type de chant parce que c'était un jour de fête.
# Certains autres savants sont d'avis qu'en soi ce type de chant est autorisé ; Wahba az-Zuhaylî a relaté cet avis de "certains autres savants hanafites, hanbalites et malikites" (Al-Fiqh al-islâmî wa adillatuh, tome 4 p. 2664). En l'absence de texte authentique, disent ces savants, c'est la règle de la permission originelle qui s'applique. Or la parole "Le chant fait croître l'hypocrisie dans le cœur" n'est effectivement pas authentique en tant que Hadîth rapporté du Prophète. Quant à la parole de Aïcha "et elles n'étaient pas des chanteuses", cela désigne le chant de type B.1.3 (c'est une des explications : voir Fat'h ul-bârî, Shar'h Muslim). Et même à considérer que cela désigne effectivement le chant de type B.1.2 (ce qui est une autre des explications : voir Fat'h ul-bârî, Shar'h Muslim), alors cela est dû à un fait particulier, qui fait aussi l'unanimité : un homme ne peut pas écouter le chant d'une femme qui n'est pas sa femme ni sa proche parente (mahram) (Al-Ihyâ, tome 2 p. 438, Islâm aur mûssîqâ, p. 76, p. 270, p. 279, p. 284) ; c'est pourquoi le Prophète a interdit les chants de femmes [devant des hommes] (voir le Hadîth rapporté par Ibn Mâja, n° 2128 : hassan : note de bas de page sur Al-Mughnî, 5/673). Quant à la parole de Abû Bakr "le son du diable", elle ne peut pas – d'après l'interprétation que les savants du premier avis ont donnée – être appliquée au chant de ces deux petites filles, puisque ces savants tenants du premier avis ont dit eux-mêmes qu'il s'agissait d'un "chant de type B.1.1" ; or le type B.1.1 est permis à l'unanimité (Islâm aur musîqâ, p. 287) ! En fait le chant de type B.1.2, fait par des hommes ou des petites filles, est permis en soi, mais il faut rester vigilant vis-à-vis de soi-même pour qu'il n'entraîne pas des choses interdites (en termes de propos, etc.), car c'est alors que cela devient "le son du diable" (Ahkâm ul-qur'ân, Ibn al-Arabî, tome 3 p. 207). C'est donc pour cela que, d'une part, le Prophète n'a pas nié que le chant mérite ce qualificatif, et que d'autre part il l'a toléré ; s'il était systématiquement "son du diable", le fait qu'il s'agissait d'un jour de fête n'aurait eu aucune incidence. En temps normal, ce genre de chant est autorisé, mais il faut rester vigilant car cela peut devenir un "son du diable" ; cependant le jour de fête demande une plus grande tolérance et un assouplissement de la vigilance, l'accent étant alors mis sur le caractère autorisé.
Wahba az-Zuhaylî donné préférence à ce second avis (Al-Fiqh al-islâmî wa adillatuh, tome 4 p. 2664).

B.2) L'instrumentation musicale (al-âlât al-mûssîqiyya) :

Nous avons vu plus haut, en A, qu'il y a des cas où certaines musiques sont interdites à l'unanimité. Nous n'y reviendrons pas. Ce que nous allons voir maintenant concerne les cas autres que ceux cités en A. Et ce que nous pouvons dire c'est que certaines catégories de musiques sont autorisées à l'unanimité, tandis que d'autres font l'objet de divergences d'opinions parmi des savants musulmans.

B.2.1) Un premier groupe de Hadîths, qui paraît interdire les instruments de musique :

# "Il y aura dans ma communauté des gens qui déclareront permis l'adultère, la soie, l'alcool et les "ma'âzif"" (rapporté par Al-Bukhârî, n° 5268). Que signifie le terme "ma'âzif" ? Ibn Qayyim écrit : "Le terme "ma'âzif" désigne tous les instruments de musique ; il n'y a pas de divergence entre les spécialistes du vocabulaire à ce sujet" (Ighâthat ul-lahfân, tome 1 p. 392). Ibn Hajar a écrit des lignes très voisines (Fat'h ul-bârî, commentaire du Hadîth n° 5268).
# Nâfi' raconte qu'un jour, Ibn Omar entendit sur son chemin le son de la flûte d'un berger. Il mit alors les doigts dans ses oreilles et écarta sa monture du chemin. Il ne cessa de demander à Nâfi' si le son était toujours audible, et c'est lorsque Nâfi' lui répondit négativement qu'il enleva les doigts de ses oreilles. Il dit alors qu'un jour, alors qu'il était en compagnie du Prophète, celui-ci entendit un son semblable et fit de même (rapporté par Abû Dâoûd, n° 4924).
# Il y a aussi un Hadîth qui parle de "la clochette" ("al-jaras") (rapporté par Muslim, n° 2114).
# Le Prophète a aussi interdit "al-kûba" (Silsilat ul-ahâdîth as-sahîha, n° 1708, n° 1806), "al-qanîn" (Silsilat ul-ahâdîth as-sahîha, n° 1708). D'après certains savants, "al-kûba" désigne le tambour (Nayl al-awtâr, tome 8 p. 240, Silsilat ul-ahâdîth as-sahîha, tome 4 p. 285 et p. 422), et "al-qanîn" désigne un instrument à six cordes (Nayl al-awtâr, tome 8 p. 240) ou le luth (Silsilat ul-ahâdîth as-sahîha, tome 4 p. 285). Il faut cependant dire que ce Hadîth n'est pas formel (sarîh) quant à ces instruments, car d'autres savants sont quant à eux d'avis que "al-kûba" désigne le trictrac (Silsilat ul-ahâdîth as-sahîha, tome 4 p. 422) et "al-qanîn" un jeu de hasard pratiqué à l'époque par les Byzantins (Nayl al-awtâr, tome 8 p. 240).

B.2.2) Un second groupe de Hadîths, qui semble permettre des instruments de musique :

# Le Prophète a dit : "La différence entre (la relation) permise et (celle) interdite est le tambourin et la voix" (rapporté par At-Tirmidhî, n° 1088, An-Nassaï, n° 1896).
# Alors que Aïcha avait fait l'organisation d'un mariage, le Prophète lui dit : "Aïcha, n'aviez donc vous pas de divertissement ? Les Ansâr aiment le divertissement" (rapporté par Al-Bukhârî, n° 4868). Dans une autre version : "Si vous aviez envoyé une petite fille qui jouerait du tambourin et chanterait !" "Qui dirait quoi ?" "Qui dirait : "Nous sommes venus à vous, nous sommes venus à vous, salut à nous, salut à vous"" (Fat'h ul-bârî, commentaire de ce Hadîth). As-Suyûtî a écrit que le terme "jâriya" désigne la fille non-pubère, comme le mot "ghulâm" indique le garçon non pubère (Islâm aur mûsîqâ, p. 189).
# Amir ibn Sa'd raconte s'être rendu auprès de deux Compagnons, Qurza ibn Ka'b et Abû Mas'ûd, à l'occasion d'un mariage. Il vit des petites filles qui chantaient. Il leur dit alors : "Vous êtes deux Compagnons du Prophète, des gens de Badr [de surcroît], et on fait cela près de vous !" Qurza lui répondit : "Assieds-toi si tu le veux et écoute, et pars si tu le veux. Il nous a été autorisé de pratiquer ce divertissement ("lahw") lors d'un mariage" (rapporté par An-Nassaï, n° 3383). Le terme employé ici par Qurza, "lahw", ne désigne pas le divertissement en tant que tel, puisque ce n'est pas uniquement lors de mariages que les divertissements "neutres" sont permis ; ce terme désigne ici "la musique", car c'est un des noms donnés à la musique (Ighâthat ul-lahfân, tome 1 p. 360). Le Compagnon voulait dire que l'emploi du tambourin a été autorisé lors des mariages.
# Rubayyi' bint Mu'awwidh raconte que le lendemain de son mariage, elle reçut la visite du Prophète. Elle raconte : "Quelques petites filles jouaient du tambourin et faisaient les éloges de mes parents morts à Badr. Tout à coup l'une d'entre elles dit : "Et parmi nous se trouve un prophète qui sait ce qu'il adviendra demain". Le Prophète fit : "Délaisse ce propos et dis plutôt ce que tu étais en train de dire"" (rapporté par Al-Bukhârî, n° 4852, Ibn Mâja, n° 1924).
# Un jour de Eid, deux petites filles ("jâriya") chantaient et jouaient du tambourin dans l'appartement de Aïcha, alors que le Prophète était allongé et s'était recouvert le visage. Abû Bakr entra et reprocha à Aïcha cet état des choses en disant : "Un son du diable dans la maison du Messager de Dieu ?" Mais le Prophète lui dit : "Laisse-les, Abû Bakr, chaque peuple a son jour de fête, et aujourd'hui c'est le nôtre" (rapporté par Al-Bukhârî, n° 3337 etc., Muslim, n° 892).
# Après que le Prophète soit revenu d'une campagne, une servante noire vint le voir et lui dit : "J'avais fait le vœu de jouer du tambourin et de chanter devant toi si Dieu te faisait retourner sain et sauf." Le Prophète lui dit : "Si tu en avais fait le vœu, joue en, sinon non". Elle se mit donc à le faire. Abû Bakr entra alors qu'elle le faisait, puis Alî entra alors qu'elle le faisait, puis Uthmân entra alors qu'elle le faisait toujours, puis Omar entra, elle déposa le tambourin et s'assit dessus (rapporté par At-Tirmidhî, n° 3690).
# Le Prophète passait dans un lieu de Médine ; des petites filles jouaient du tambourin et chantaient ; elles disaient : "Nous sommes des petites filles de Banu-n-Najjâr ; comme il est bien que Muhammad soit notre voisin !" Le Prophète dit alors : "Dieu sait que j'ai de l'affection pour vous" (rapporté par Ibn Mâja, n° 1926). D'après Cheikh Abd ul-Mu'izz, cet événement s'est passé quand le Prophète est arrivé à Médine (Islâm aur mûssîqâ, pp. 217-218, note de bas de page).

B.2.3) Différents avis ont vu le jour chez les savants par rapport à leurs différentes façons de concilier ces deux groupes de Hadîths :

# Le savant andalou Ibn Hazm est d'avis que les Hadîths du premier groupe sont soit non-authentiques, soit sont authentiques mais ne sont pas formels quant à l'interdiction. En l'absence de textes à la fois authentiques et clairs, les instruments de musique restent donc dans la permission originelle du moment que dans les faits on ne les utilise pas en manquant aux autres principes de l'islam (= mubâha fîn nafsihâ, wa lâkin tahrum lil-'aridh). D'après Ibn Hazm, le Hadîth rapporté par Al-Bukhârî (n° 5268) n'est pas authentique car sa chaîne de transmission n'est pas continue entre Al-Bukharî et Hishâm (Al-Muhallâ, tome 7 p. 565). Et du Hadîth rapporté par Abû Dâoûd (n° 4924), Ibn Hazm dit qu'il montre certes que le Prophète a préféré ne pas écouter la musique, mais si cela était interdit, il aurait ordonné à Ibn Omar de ne pas l'écouter aussi ; or il ne l'a pas fait (Al-Muhallâ, tome 7 p. 570). Faire de la musique ou en écouter n'est donc, selon Ibn Hazm, pas interdit tant que cela n'entraîne pas quelque chose d'interdit [voir le point A, au début].

# Al-Ghazâlî est d'avis que, parmi les instruments de musique, sont interdits "les instruments à corde", "les flûtes", "le gros tambour", ainsi que "les instruments de musique qui sont utilisés habituellement par ceux qui mènent leur vie hors des principes éthiques de l'islam" (Al-Ihyâ, tome 2, pp. 424, 429, 438). Les autres instruments, écrit-il, restent dans la permission originelle, et il cite "le tambourin, même avec des clochettes, le tambour, le "shâhîn", le "qadhîb" etc." (Idem, p. 438, p. 424).

# Les autres savants sont d'avis que, en vertu des Hadîths du premier groupe, la règle générale à propos des instruments de musique est l'interdiction.
En effet, soulignent-ils, le Hadîth n° 5268 rapporté par Al-Bukhârî est bel et bien authentique. Hishâm ibn 'Ammâr est un transmetteur tout à fait fiable. Al-Bukhârî lui-même, dans son livre As-Sahîh, n'a pas rapporté de Hishâm ibn 'Ammâr que le Hadîth qui concerne la musique (le n° 5268), mais également 3 autres Hadîths différents, n° 1972, n° 3461 et n° 3951, considérés comme authentiques. De plus, An-Nassaï a rapporté de lui plus de 15 Hadîths différents dans son Sunan. Aboû Dâoûd a rapporté de lui plus de 16 Hadîths dans son Sunan, At-Tirmidhî 1 Hadîth dans son Jâmi', et Ibn Mâja plus de 330 dans son Sunan. D'un autre côté, la chaîne de transmission de ce Hadîth est tout à fait continue (muttasil). En effet, Hishâm ibn 'Ammâr est un des professeurs de Al-Bukhârî. Parmi les 4 Hadîths que Al-Bukhârî tient de Hishâm, il y en a 2 (les n° 1972 et 3461) qui sont cités avec, en début de chaîne, la formule "Hishâm nous a rapporté que…" ("Haddathanâ Hishâm ibn 'Ammâr"). Ceci montre bien que Al-Bukhârî a rencontré Hishâm, qui est son professeur direct. Et même à supposer que, pour ce Hadîth n° 5268, la chaîne de transmission citée par Al-Bukhârî ne soit pas continue entre lui et Hishâm mais interrompue (mu'allaq), il ne faut pas oublier que d'autres auteurs de recueils de Hadîths ont mentionné le même Hadîth avec la même chaîne de transmission reposant sur Hishâm ibn 'Ammâr, mais où la chaîne est explicitement continue (muttasil). Ainsi Ibn Hibbân, At-Tabarânî et Al-Bayhaqî ont cité, dans leur recueil respectif de Hadîths, ce même Hadîth avec la même chaîne de transmission reposant sur Hishâm ibn 'Ammâr, et qui est explicitement continue (muttasil) (voir Fat'h ul-bârî, et Silsila al-ahâdîth as-sahîha, tome 1 p. 186). Enfin, d'autres auteurs de recueils de Hadîths ont mentionné le même Hadîth avec une chaîne de transmission qui ne passe pas par Hishâm ibn 'Ammâr : voir ce qu'a rapporté Ibn Mâja, Sunan, n° 4092. Bref, ce Hadîth est authentique et indique les instruments de musique sont interdits puisqu'il dit que des gens les considèreront permis.
Quant au Hadîth rapporté par Abû Dâoûd (n° 4924), si le Prophète n'a pas dit à Ibn Omar de se boucher les oreilles et si, plus tard, Ibn Omar n'a pas non plus dit à Nâfi' de le faire, c'est parce qu'ils ne faisaient que passer et ils n'écoutaient pas (istimâ'), ils entendaient (simâ') sans le vouloir : or, c'est écouter qu'il faut éviter, mais quand on n'a pas d'autre choix que celui de passer en un tel lieu, on n'est pas obligé de se boucher les oreilles ; c'est pourquoi si le Prophète a choisi de le faire lui, il n'a pas ordonné à Ibn Omar de le faire aussi ; plus tard Ibn Omar a agi de même sans ordonner à Nâfi' de le faire : ce n'était pas obligatoire (Majmû' ul-fatâwâ, tome 30 pp. 212-213, Al-Mughnî, tome 14 pp. 55-56).

Bref, disent ces savants, la règle générale est que l'utilisation des instruments de musique n'est pas autorisée. Cependant, poursuivent ces savants, les Hadîths du second groupe (B.2.2) fondent, par rapport à cette règle générale, une exception à propos du tambourin. C'est donc le tambourin et lui seulement qui est autorisé. Quatre avis existent ici quant aux occasions concernant cette exception :
– l'exception à la règle générale reste limitée au cas précis du mariage, exactement comme l'a souligné le Compagnon Qurza : "Il nous a été autorisé de pratiquer ce divertissement ("lahw") lors d'un mariage" ; c'est l'avis de certains savants (Islâm aur mûssîqâ, p. 311) ;
– l'exception à la règle générale reste limitée aux cas précis du mariage et du jour de fête (Eid) ; c'est l'avis de Al-Albânî (Silsilat ul-ahâdîth as-sahîha, tome 4 p. 142) ; cela semble aussi être l'avis de Ibn Qayyim (Ighâthat ul-lahfân, tome 1 p. 387),
– l'exception à la règle générale reste limitée aux occasions de joie : mariage, jour de fête, lendemain de mariage, retour de voyage…; c'est un avis minoritaire au sein de l'école malikite (Islâm aur mûssîqâ, p. 311) ;
– l'exception concerne le tambourin en tant que tel, et son utilisation est donc en soi permise sans précision des occasions ; c'est l'avis du savant shafi'ite Al-Harawî (Islâm aur mûssîqâ, p. 285).
Et qu'est-ce que ce "tambourin", ce "duff" dont parlent des Hadîths et qu'évoquent ces avis ? Il s'agirait, d'après un avis, d'une sorte de petit tambour disposant de seulement une face que l'on frappe avec la main (voir Islâm aur mûssîqâ, p. 308).

# D'autres savants encore sont de l'avis suivant : conformément aux Hadîths du premier groupe, qui parlent des "ma'âzif", la règle générale est que les instruments de musique sont à délaisser. Cependant, les Hadîths du second groupe fondent une exception par rapport à cette règle générale : l'utilisation du tambourin. Cette exception ne concerne cependant pas seulement le tambourin, mais tout instrument qui, comme lui, n'est pas employé que pour la musique et, de lui-même, ne ravit pas l'oreille quand il est utilisé ("lâ yut'rib"), à l'instar du "qadhîb" (une sorte de baguette). Ici aussi, des interprétations différentes apparaissent quant aux circonstances d'utilisation :
– pour Ibn ul-Humâm, la permission d'utiliser de tels instruments est limitée au cas du mariage et aux occasions de joie ; hormis ces cas, l'utilisation des instruments est à délaisser (Islâm aur mûssîqâ, p. 265) ;
– l'utilisation de tels instruments est en soi permise sans précision des occasions ; cela semble être l'avis de Ibn Qudâma (Al-Mughnî, tome 14 p. 56-57).
Reste maintenant à faire une recherche approfondie pour établir qu'est-ce qui, selon ces savants, entre dans la catégories de ces instruments qui sont "lâ yut'rib"…

Synthèse de la réponse :

A la lumière des Hadîths et des avis que nous avons vus, il apparaît que l'utilisation du tambourin est permise (avec des divergences d'avis quant aux circonstances de son utilisation). Mis à part le tambourin, il est des instruments qui ne créent pas le "ravissement de l'âme" ("lâ yut'rib") ; d'après l'avis de certains savants, ces instruments-là sont aussi permis (avec les divergences que nous avons vues quant aux occasions de cette permission). Il y a, comme fondement de ces divergences, les argumentations que nous avons vues, et je me suis contenté de relater les différents avis.
Et puis il y a une troisième catégorie d'instruments, ceux qui "ravissent d'eux-mêmes l'âme" ("yut'rib") ; l'avis paraissant juste à leur sujet est celui qui dit qu'ils sont systématiquement à délaisser, et je ne partage donc pas à ce sujet l'opinion de Al-Ghazâlî, de Ibn Hazm et donc de Al-Qardhâwî qui a repris leur avis. La musique que ce type d'instruments produit n'est pas semblable à la mélodie des oiseaux ou à celle des voix humaines, car son rythme a un effet différent sur l'être humain ("yut'ribuhû wa yulhîh 'an hâjat dunyâhu wa hammi âkhiratih" : Hujjat ullâh il-bâlighah, tome 2 pp. 520-521). Cette instrumentation musicale est donc à éviter parce que produisant très souvent sur celui qui la joue et celui qui l'écoute un effet qui fait oublier le sens de la vie et le sens de la mesure (huwa mazinna lis-sadd 'an dhikr-illâh wa 'an-is-salât – wa yad'û qalîluhû ilâ kathîrih) ; même si quelqu'un se sent capable de ne pas subir cet effet, la règle est qu'il doit donc s'en abstenir (mithla-l-khalwa bil-mar'a : hiya mazinna lil-khatar, wa hiya harâm hattâ 'alâ man yazunnu nafsahû 'alâ amn min al-khatar).
Deux musulmans convertis à l'islam m'ont expliqué comprendre, par leur expérience passée, la nécessité de délaisser systématiquement ces instruments de musique. Ils étaient, dans le passé, des mélomanes avertis, m'ont-ils raconté, et avec le recul ils se sont aperçus que la musique met celui qui l'écoute dans un état particulier : chaque type de musique est, de par son seul rythme, capable de faire naître des émotions précises chez celui qui le joue et chez celui qui l'écoute [l'effet que ce genre de rythme produit sur l'homme est d'ailleurs un trait que l'homme a en commun avec d'autres êtres vivants de la terre (certains animaux sont sensibles à la mélodie, qu'on utilise par exemple pour les faire avancer plus vite) (voir la note de bas de page sur Madârij us-sâlikîn, tome 1 p. 535)]. L'un de ces deux musulmans m'a dit se souvenir avoir ressenti de l'amour, de la tristesse, voire de l'angoisse en écoutant telle ou telle musique. "J'arrêtai le disque, l'émotion cessait et je me retrouvai dans mon état réel, avec la perception réelle du monde autour de moi. Je mettais de nouveau le disque en marche et de nouveau naissaient cette émotion et cette perception différente de la réalité. J'ai fait cette expérience plusieurs fois avec des musiques différentes."

J'ai dit ne pas partager l'avis de Ibn Hazm et de Al-Ghazâlî à propos des instruments de la troisième catégorie. Cependant, je ne me permets pas de les dénigrer (ta'n) à cause de cet avis, ni eux ni ceux des musulmans qui ont la même opinion qu'eux à ce sujet. Trop de frères ont recours au dénigrement et semblent oublier que "hormis le Prophète, chaque savant est sujet à l'erreur d'interprétation". Les musulmans du monde entier gagneraient beaucoup à parvenir à faire la différence entre la takhti'a (établir, après des recherches approfondies, qu'un savant s'est trompé et donc ne pas suivre son opinion), et le ta'n (dénigrer le savant qui s'est trompé). Le livre Raf' ul-malâm 'an il-aïmmat il-a'lâm ("Ce qui enlève le blâme des illustres grands savants") est particulièrement intéressant à ce sujet.

Rappels :

Il est des actes qui sont permis en soi mais dont il arrive qu'une personne précise sait pertinemment que chaque fois qu'elle le fait, il la conduit à tomber dans ce qui est interdit. A ce moment-là cette personne précise doit s'abstenir de cet acte précis (Fatâwâ mu'âsira, tome 2 p. 494).

Sorry brothers its in French :(

ibnAbdullah87

11-07-2006, 04:27 PM

You can't even share your proofs in a common language that we can both understand then how do you expect me to agree with or atlessed come to a common ground. You said you only take from the four Imaams so I gave you what they say on this issue then you bring me something in french, what is the purpose of that are you trying to just out argue or cause fitnah or do you really care to come to the truth and follow the proofs you are trying to make me feel bad but you are harming none but yourself. Anyone the proofs are there take them or leave them. I want to know one thing did you even read the my post of what the Four Imaams said.

OmarTheFrench

11-07-2006, 04:46 PM

What I have posted its the opinions of the savants of this sames schools.

Seeking knowledge is an obligation upon every Muslim,its what i do I don't try convince me that the music its permitted,but there are musics who are hallal and others haram(allah knows best),if I offended you sorry brother its not my intention.

TearfulEyes

11-07-2006, 05:03 PM

Brother,warning I never say that they are kufars dont give me words that I never said ,its them who like judge the other Muslims not me.
Sorry brothers but the Wahhabi savants aren't my source of advice I prefer hear the savants of the 4 schools.(Allah know best)

Dear Brother Omar and everyone else who is a Muslim. Wahhabi is not one of the 4 schools or Math-habs, but they follow Imam Hambal. So, for you Brother Omar, you can follow and seek ruling from any of the four books or savants, and you are a good Muslim, Insha Allah. So is everyone else, seeking any Islamic ruling by referring to any of the four Math-habs will keep you in the Islamic Faith, Insha Allah. :arabi1:

Imad

11-08-2006, 09:32 AM

Assalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh dear brother Omar,

My question was simple and i wanted a simple answer, but you didn't give me this answer. I Ask Allah subhanahu wata3ala to give me, you and the muslim brothers and sisters more knowledge, amien.

Assalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh,

Dear brother Omarthefrench you are a revert so please gain more knowledgd about islam. It's important to know who is right and who is wrong, so gaining knowledge is very important. I want to clarify something for you and this is the word : " Wahabi"
Before explaining to you the meaning of this word i have for you a question, so please answer:

" Who is el-Wahaab? "

Thank you very much.

Wassalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh,

Imad

your answer

I dont need lot of knoweldge to know that Wahhabi reject the 4 Big schools,I dont need lot of knowledge to know that for Wahhabi the Mutzalites are kufur and the Asharism are egared.

The savant Wahhabi aren't my first source of advice but I will never say that they are kufur like they do with others Muslims.(Allah knows best)

i will give the answer:

El-Wahaab is one of the names of Allah subhanahu watala. One who says you are a "Wahabi", makes a big mistake. He has to repent.

How do you think you will react if a muslim calls another muslim " Allahi" ?

That's why knowledge is very important. The imaam is called Mohammed ibn abd el Wahaab. I will translate: Mohammed the son of abd ( Slave) of el Wahaab. Some people are called abd el Wahaab, like others who are called Abdu-Llah which means the slave of Allah.

So please be carefull. I advice every one to be carefull with this statements.

I ask Allah subhanahu wata3ala to forgive me if i made a mistake. Please correct me ik i have made a mistake.

Fee amanillah.

Wassalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh,

Kayote

11-08-2006, 06:14 PM

Salam

Masha'Allah, what useful information. JazzakAllah Khair Imad.

WaAliekum Assalam

OmarTheFrench

11-08-2006, 06:48 PM

I have bad writing that its Wahhabi.

Basicofislam

11-08-2006, 09:33 PM

i have been singing since i was a baby. Until last year when i decided to follow our religion the way it is said. Yes i do sing but only in front of women. I even sang on the radio but not anymore. Sometimes You have to give up things that you love the most in this world for a better afterlife. I would have said the same thing what you are saying last year but you really have to read to understand what is more important to you. See look at it this way if you listened to britney spears or byonce everyday. What will happen to you? Dont you feel like dancing it makes you think and feel different. Maybe even have lustful thoughts. That is why you are restricted to what kind of music you can hear or play.

samiha

11-14-2006, 05:46 AM

Assalam.

i am really getting to abhore this thread but I wanted to put this hadith...

The Prophet (sws) is reported to have said: 'Both the lawful (Halal) and the unlawful (Haram) things are obvious, and in between them are doubtful [Mushtabihat] matters. Whoever forsakes those doubtful things lest he may commit a sin, will definitely avoid what is clearly unlawful; and whoever indulges in these (suspicious) doubtful things carelessly, is likely to stumble into what is clearly unlawful. Sins are Allah's Hima (ie private pasture) and whoever pastures [his sheep] near it, is likely to get in it at any moment.'

The above Hadith mentions an important principle for the religiously pious individuals: They should not just be content with staying away from what is obviously prohibited; they are expected to stay away from the gray areas of the Shari'ah as well.

Even though I don't see it as a gray area at all!

Abdul Hasib

11-14-2006, 09:46 PM

:bismillah:

:salam2:

Brother Shabaz,I don`t think thats the type of music the brother trying bring our attention to.

E.G Indian & English,Bengali,Black,Arabic

Free mixing women and men dancing together,Inappropriate & Unsuitable wordings used.

:wasalam:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4855942093602125753&q=gihad+ali

Is this Haram? Ali is just teaching people about the truth about Falasteen. (Palestine)

simple82best

11-14-2006, 10:40 PM

MUSIC ARCCODING TO QURAN AND SUNNAH

The Prohibition

The Noble Qur'an - Luqman 31:6

And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allah, the Verses of the Qur'an) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-Fire).

Ibn Masood (ra) said about this verse "I swear by the One other than Whom there is no God that it refers to singing [ghinaa].", and he repeated this three times. Ibn Abbaas (ra) said it refered to 'singing and the like' while Jaabir (ra) is reported to view its meaning to signify singing and listening to songs. Many taabi'oon such as Mujaahid, Ikrimah, Mak-hool and Umar ibn Shu'ayb viewed it as a censure of music and song.

Hadith - Bukhari (#787) [Also related by Tabari]

Sa'id ibn Jbayr reported that Ibn 'Abbas said about the verse: "And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks" (31:6), that, "ldle talks means singing and the like."

The Noble Qur'an - Al-Isra 17:64

"And Istafiz [literally means: befool them gradually] those whom you can among them with your voice (i.e. songs, music, and other call for Allah's disobedience)..."

Hadith - Bukhari 7:494

Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks, and the use of musical instruments as lawful. And (from them), there will be some who will stay near the side of a mountain, and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and Allah will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."

The Noble Qur'an - An-Najm 53:57-62

The Day of Resurrection draws near, None besides Allah can avert it, (or advance it, or delay it). Do you then wonder at this recital (the Qur'an)? And you laugh at it and weep not, Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing, etc.). So fall you down in prostration to Allah, and worship Him (Alone).

‘Ikrimah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: it was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that al-sumood [verbal noun from saamidoon, translated here as “Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)”] means “singing”, in the dialect of Himyar; it might be said “Ismidi lanaa” [‘sing for us’ – from the same root as saamidoon/sumood] meaning “ghaniy” [sing]. And he said (may Allaah have mercy on him): When they [the kuffaar] heard the Qur’aan, they would sing, then this aayah was revealed.

Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Allah says (interpretation of the meaning) “Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)” – Sufyaan al-Thawri said, narrating from his father from Ibn ‘Abbaas: (this means) singing. This is Yemeni (dialect): ismad lana means ghan lana [sing to us]. This was also the view of ‘Ikrimah. (Tafseer Ibn Katheer).

Use of a Simple Drum

Use of the "duff" (simple drum) is permitted in Islam for a practical purpose (such as establishing a simple beat for exercise, rowing, and other labors), but not to be done by a Muslim for entertainment or idleness. In such instances, it must not be played as music, such as by enhancing rhythm, whistling a tune and whatnot. Ibn al-Qayyim said in Ighaathat al-Lahfaan (1/256) that the prohibition against the use of instruments refers to "all kinds of things used for entertainment."

According to the Sunnah, females can sing and beat the duff on the two 'Eids (specific Muslim celebrations) and to announce a Muslim wedding amongst themselves, and their voices shouldn't be raised loud enough or near enough to be heard by the men.

Poetry is also permitted, but it must not contain shirk (the major sin of associating a partner in worship with Allah, i.e. trinity, major or minor shirk, etc.).

The woman's voice should not be used in an attractive way around non-mahram men and to them it must be limited to necessity (physical necessity such as asking for something at the store, not emotional 'necessity' such as social conversation). Men and women must not engage in idle or social conversations with non-mahrams (those not related as specified in The Quran). Muslim men should avoid listening to a non-related (i.e. non-mahram) female voice (such as pop singers, etc.) except when it is unavoidable or due to her speaking out of necessity and not socializing.

The Noble Qur'an - An-Najm 53:57-62

The Prophet came to me after consuming his marriage with me and sat down on my bed as you (the sub-narrator) are sitting now, and small girls were beating the duff* and singing in lamentation of my father who had been killed on the day of the battle of Badr. Then one of the girls said, "There is a Prophet amongst us who knows what will happen tomorrow." The Prophet [saaws] said (to her),"Do not say this, but go on saying what you have spoken before."

* duff /daff- a one-sided drum made of animal skin.

The Noble Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:32
O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty (to Allâh), then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease (of hypocrisy, or evil desire for adultery, etc.) should be moved with desire, but speak in an honourable manner.

Explanation from Sheikh Ibn Baz

Shaykh Ibn Baz (may Allah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo' al-Fataawa, 3/423-424:

"Ma'aazif refers to singing and musical instruments. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that at the end of time there will come a people who will allow these things just as they will allow alcohol, zina and silk. This is one of the signs of his Prophethood, for all of this has happened. The hadeeth indicates that [musical instruments] are haram (prohibited), and condemns those who say they are halal (permissible), just as it condemns those who say that alcohol and zina are allowed. The aayaat and ahaadeeth that warn against singing and musical instruments are many indeed. Whoever claims that Allaah has allowed singing and musical instruments is lying and is committing a great evil. We ask Allaah to keep us from obeying our desires and the Shaytaan. Even worse and more seriously sinful than that are those who say it is mustahabb. Undoubtedly this stems from ignorance about Allaah and His Religion; it is insolent blasphemy against Allaah and lying about His Laws.

What is mustahabb (recommended) is to beat on the daff [simple hand drum] at weddings. This is mustahabb for women only, in order to announce the wedding and to distinguish it from fornication. There is nothing wrong with women singing amongst themselves, accompanied by the daff, so long as the songs contain no words that encourage evil or distract people from their duties. It is also a condition that this should take place among women only, and there should be no mixing with men. It should also not cause any annoyance or disturbance to neighbours. What some people do, of amplifying such singing with loudspeakers is evil, because of the disturbance it causes to other Muslims, neighbours and others. It is not permissible for women, in weddings or on other occasions, to use any instrument other than the daff, such as the oud, violin, rebab (stringed instrument) and so on. This is evil, and the only concession that women are given is that they may use the daff.

As for men, it is not permissible for them to play any kind of musical instrument, whether at weddings or on any other occasion. What Allaah has prescribed for men is training in the use of instruments of war, such as target practice or learning to ride horses and competing in that, using spears, shields, tanks, airplanes and other things such as cannons, machine guns, bombs and anything else that may help jihaad for the sake of Allaah."

Hadith - Sunan of Abu Dawood, #4909, Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud

Salam ibn Miskin, quoting an old man who witnessed AbuWa'il in a wedding feast, said: They began to play, amuse and sing. He united the support of his hand round his knees that were drawn up, and said: I heard Abdullah (ibn Mas'ud) say: I heard the apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) say: Singing produces hypocrisy in the heart.

Intentions as it Relates to Hearing Music

Shaykh Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Concerning (music) which a person does not intend to listen to, there is no prohibition or blame, according to scholarly consensus. Hence blame or praise is connected to listening, not to hearing. The one who listens to the Qur'aan will be rewarded for it, whereas the one who hears it without intending or wanting to will not be rewarded for that, because actions are judged by intentions. The same applies to musical instruments which are forbidden: if a person hears them without intending to, that does not matter. (al-Majmoo', 10/78).

Imaam Maalik (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about playing the drum or flute, if a person happens to hear the sound and enjoy it whilst he is walking or sitting. He said: He should get up if he finds that he enjoys it, unless he is sitting down for a need or is unable to get up. If he is on the road, he should either go back or move on. (al-Jaami' by al-Qayrawaani, 262). He (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: "The only people who do things like that, in our view, are faasiq's." (Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 14/55).

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: It is not permissible to make musical instruments. (al-Majmoo', 22/140). And he said: According to the majority of fuqahaa', it is permissible to destroy musical instruments, such as the tanboor [a stringed instrument similar to a mandolin]. This is the view of Maalik and is the more famous of the two views narrated from Ahmad. (al-Majmoo', 28/113). Ibn Abi Shaybah (may Allaah have mercy on him) reported that a man broke a mandolin belonging to another man, and the latter took his case to Shurayh. But Shurayh did not award him any compensation, i.e., he did not make the first man pay the cost of the mandolin, because it was haram and had no value. (al-Musannaf, 5/395).

A Haram (Prohibited) Profession

It is haram (prohibited) to be work as a salesperson in a store that sells musical instruments. It is permissible to sell an instrument for its parts, such as to have it melted down, etc. It is of course, as shown by the evidences above, haram to be a musician.

Al-Baghawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) stated in a fatwa that it is haram to sell all kinds of musical instruments such as mandolins, flutes, etc. Then he said: If the images are erased and the musical instruments are altered, then it is permissible to sell their parts, whether they are silver, iron, wood or whatever. (Sharh al-Sunnah, 8/28)

Effeminate Men

Shaykh Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) made allowances for certain types of musical instruments at weddings and the like, and he made allowances for women to play the daff at weddings and on other joyful occasions. But the men at his time did not play the daff or clap with their hands. It was narrated in al-Saheeh that he said: "Clapping is for women and tasbeeh (saying Subhaan Allaah) is for men." And he cursed women who imitate men and men who imitate women.

Because singing and playing the daff are things that women do, the Salaf (men of the far past) used to call any man who did that a mukhannath (effeminate man), and they used to call male singers effeminate - and how many of them there are nowadays! It is well known that the Salaf said this.

JAZZAK ALLAH KHEIR
If anyone would like to comment and urgue regarding this article he should bring me evidence from Quran or hadith. We follow the best of example of the greatest man ever live PH SA.

shabnum

11-30-2006, 12:08 PM

:salam2:

when i was not practicing islam, i use to listen to music to the certain extent i was so addicted to it that i couldnt stop singing and listening to music it use to run throw my mind 24/7 even when i was a wake early in the morning the same track use to run throw my mind astakfirula it weakned my imaam faith for allah and islam.

you see music weakens your heart your faith::frown:

i know the feeling cause its happen to me, well alhumdulilah not any more cus i do not listen to music at all, as you know its haraam.

i use to feel corrupted listening to music ohnestly this is coming from me i did not get a good feeling at all, now that islam is part of my life i feel so much happy so much peace who needs music nobody the best feeling you can get is from allah by worshiping him :muslim_child:

so sisters and brothers my advice is this music do not listen to music it weakins your faith also its haraam.

so if your still not sure :arabi1: there are evidence of hadithes just look it up and find out for your self, as our brother has just explained may allah give him happiness more knowledge of islam ameen.

may allah guide you all inshalla ameen.:blackhijab:

:wasalam:

samiha

11-30-2006, 08:27 PM

Assalam.

I hope that everyone understands that Quranic ayahs in any language other than Arabic are translations!!

Not just areas where they explain things in more detail, the entire thing.

The Quran is only in the Arabic language!!!

No Quranic translation encompasses the Arabic. Sometimes people might feel that the person put an explaination wrong, but then you should leave the whole translation, if you are not willing to trust them when they explain what a word means, then it makes no sence to believe it when they translate the entire Quran.

It's like say a person was translating another language for you and you say to them, "I believe what you are translating but based on the entire context I can't believe this to be exactly right."

NewMuslim

11-30-2006, 10:12 PM

Dawoodi

01-05-2007, 02:39 AM

Asalamualikum,

Can you prove to me that God/Allah did not give me the gift of the ability to play the piano?

Sallam

salam walaikum w

base on that argument also i could say " Can you prove to me that God/Allah did not give me the gift of the ability to have sex and procreate children? so if thats the case i can have sex as much i want with any one i want.......humm what about the ability to kill??? can i kill too??.....

so in this way the argument is refuted, there is no logic on it...Allah subhanah wata'allah has given to us many abilities but also has set rules and regulations for our own sake.

Ego can easily take us away from the rigth path and sheitan its ready to wisper devil ideas and arguments.

another argument i saw was trying to say ohh but what about if i have the intention of dawah with music?

what about the cristians and they rock bands they say they have the intention of praying to God. are they rigth? no of curse not.

as much as we have good intentions they are nothing with out the rigth metodology. from Quran and Sunnah.

this are but excuses like the one who say ohh yeah i'm gambling becouse i want to build a masjid with the money i win!!

:astag:

salam w.

Dawoodi

01-05-2007, 02:44 AM

Brother,warning I never say that they are kufars dont give me words that I never said ,its them who like judge the other Muslims not me.
Sorry brothers but the Wahhabi savants aren't my source of advice I prefer hear the savants of the 4 schools.(Allah know best)

salam walaikum w

brother u dont need to say some is kafir literaly to doit.
just making a stament like the one u just did is suficient.

for instance if u say a muslim dont belive in the angels etc u are saying he is kafir.

salam w

NewMuslim

01-05-2007, 03:20 AM

faiz_fauzi

01-05-2007, 07:32 PM

Assalamualikum?
Did u guys c what is happening here?

We are debating bout the small matter."Khilafiyyah".We keep debating,debating,debating.One person say this and another say that and someone say another.We keep on fighting and debating about what?Music?Wahabi?

All my brothers and sisters Please?
Hear me out loud?
Put away all the "khilafiyyah" matters aside.Please concentrate on the bigger issue.We are here fighting bout music haram,halal wahabi madhab and so on but did u realiza that the palestinian, chechen, iraqi and all the muslims is struggling to fight for their land their dignity their food the place but we in the other side still fighting and fighting about the bid'ah sunnah the scholar differences.WHY?

faiz_fauzi

01-05-2007, 07:43 PM

Please hear me out loud?There is a bigger issue out there.WE NEED TO UNITE?No matter whather u are in the 4 scholar,wahabi,salafi,syiah,sunni or whatever.WE NEED TO UNITE? Put away our differences."Khilaf" is a bless from ALLAH All the 4 IMAMs has their own thoughts and way to interpret Sunnah "RASULULLAH S.A.W".They know what they are doing and if u thinks that u want to hold to Quran and Sunnah without following there 4 scholars please proceed.What i mean is put away our differences.Please "khilaf" is not mean to be argued and fight over it.It was meant to be lighten and accepted open mindedly.Rite?SO PLEASE ALL MY MUSLIMS FAMILY.

UNITE,UNITE,UNITE!I dont care wheather u r sunni,syiah,wahhabi,salafi as long as u r in ur syahadah please UNITE.Because when we unite we will become stronger we will speak in one word go through with one journey and fight for one reason.Please please please?

JazakaLLAHU Khair!

May ALLAH BLESS US ALL MUSLIMS!MAY ALLAH GUIDE US TO UNITE!

SeekerofTruth

01-26-2007, 06:55 PM

Assalamu Alaykum to all
It's clear that music is a debatable issue. Therefore, let's follow what our Prophet Muhammad (:saw:) said:

"What is Halal is clear and what is Haram is clear. Avoid all that isn't clear, lest ye fall into sin".

Being that music and singing is so debatable, then how can we say that hahal is clear and haraam is clear..because if it was clear,there would be no debate..??????????????????????

Abdul-Raheem

01-26-2007, 06:57 PM

Did you not read the part which stated, Avoid all that isn't clear, lest ye fall into sin". ?

SeekerofTruth

01-26-2007, 07:08 PM

Did you not read the part which stated, Avoid all that isn't clear, lest ye fall into sin". ?

Yes I read it,but doesnt the Quran state that God forgets nothing and that he reveals all? So shouldnt it be made plan by God or through Muhammed and and not left to interpretations by people ever since then?

samiha

01-26-2007, 07:39 PM

Yes I read it,but doesnt the Quran state that God forgets nothing and that he reveals all? So shouldnt it be made plan by God or through Muhammed and and not left to interpretations by people ever since then?

I am not sure what exactly you are refering to, however lets take an example. This is not an answer, merely a type of anology so to say. IF you have an addicted smoker and you present him with two people. You pretend each as qualified as the other, one tells the smoker that smoking is bad and that it will kill him. The other man says that smoking is fine, it's good for the lungs, all the sucking and puffing and all. Who's opinion is the man likely to take? Who is however more correct in the matter?

Let's take that the first is a Doctor specializing in the lungs and the other a Doctor only by title. They are both doctors, but are they both qualified to make such a judgment? No. The smoker may take the advice of the second because it is easier for him. BUT if he/she were to really look into the subject they would realize the truth.

Things are not made ambiguous, they aren't made strange... people do this many times though because it may be easier for them to take in and accept although it is not the correct thing. Hey they'll all find out in the end won't they? Better safe then serve as fuel for the fires of Hell. That's my motto ;)

Music is Haram. Period.

SeekerofTruth

01-26-2007, 07:47 PM

Music is Haram. Period.

Quran and Sunnah quotes please..Understand again I AM NOT saying its not haraam,I just wont 100% proof from QURAN or Sunnah that all forms of singing or music is haraam..without it,then no Muslim can condemn another Muslim for deciding to listen to good forms of singing or music,based on their opinion or a school of thought. But if it distracts a person from true worship then the act itself would cause it to be wrong.

samiha

01-26-2007, 07:56 PM

Quran and Sunnah quotes please..Understand again I AM NOT saying its not haraam,I just wont 100% proof from QURAN or Sunnah that all forms of singing or music is haraam..without it,then no Muslim can condemn another Muslim for deciding to listen to good forms of singing or music,based on their opinion or a school of thought. But if it distracts a person from true worship then the act itself would cause it to be wrong.

Sorry I'm not one to debate with things I firmly believe. I get angry, and this isn't righteous anger. I know how far I go, and I put my input according to that. You want Quran and Hadith go to the first post and read it again.

I do not condem Muslims themselves. I may condemn their actions, but I usually refrain from condemning a Muslim themselves.

May I ask a sincere question? Are you a Muslim? I am wondering because your Profile says otherwise. And if you are NOT a Muslim... may I further ask WHY you are dealing with whether Music is Haram or not at this present time?

Why don't you look into Tawheed and Aqeedah? These are the basis of Islam and it's more vital to understand this, before moving onto aspects of Fiqh, which is left for Scholars, not every man on the road to interpret and place into their own words.

This is just a question and suggestion. Forgive me if it is personal or offensive or something.

glenn

01-27-2007, 07:27 AM

Abdul-Raheem

01-27-2007, 10:46 AM

:salam2:

Read this hadith.

Volumn 007, Book 069, Hadith Number 494B.
------------------------------------------
Narated By Abu 'Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari : That he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful.

Look at the context in which musical instruments are contained. Alongside illegal sexual intercouse, drinking of alcohol and wearing silk. Things we all know are haram.

Here's something else you should read:

Timirdi recounts this Hadith from Ali ibn Abi Talib: "The Prophet said: 'If my Ummah bears fifteen traits, tribulation will befall it.' Someone asked, 'What are they, O Messenger of Allah?' He said, 'When any gain is shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor; when a trust becomes a means of making a profit; when paying Zakat becomes a burden; when a man obeys his wife and disobeys his mother; and treats his friend kindly whilst shunning his father; when voices are raised in the mosques; when the leader of a people is the worst of them; when people treat a man with respect because they fear some evil he may do; when much wine is drunk; when men wear silk; when female singers and musical instruments become popular; when the last ones of this Ummah curse the first ones --- then let them expect a red wind, or the earth to swallow them, or to be transformed into animals.'"

These are all bad things which will happen when the end of the world is near.

We seen most, if not all of these signs now.

wasalam

ibn azem

01-27-2007, 12:02 PM

I believe singing and playing instruments are halaal, if they are done for the rememberance of Allah (SWT).

Salaams.
:salam2:

That is absolutely not correct, maybe some sufi who have deviated from the Path will say that, but a muslim scholar that follows the Qur'an and the Sunnah not (exeption for the women the duff - and we've broght the explanation for that as well many times). So be careful who you follow sister!

Please provide evidence then sister that singing is halaal, when the one that was sent with the Truth (saws) clearly stated that it is haraam? so many authentic hadeeth speak of that.
And remember that if that what you are saying has no base, and is not true what is it then?:astag:

Remember that the Q'araan is sung during salaat.

I have to correct you: the Qur'an is recited, not sung! That is a big difference!

May Allah (swt) guide us to the right Path.

wasalaam.

SeekerofTruth

01-28-2007, 09:03 PM

May I ask a sincere question? Are you a Muslim? I am wondering because your Profile says otherwise. And if you are NOT a Muslim... may I further ask WHY you are dealing with whether Music is Haram or not at this present time?

This is just a question and suggestion. Forgive me if it is personal or offensive or something.

No Im not Muslim but am studying it to learn more about it..my music questions are just part of me understanding Islaam..And whether or not music is haraam or not is very important or people wouldnt make such a big deal about it..

As for reading the hadiths they are becoming more and more confusing when some say its okay and some say its not..this from a non Muslims stand point makes Islaam seem way to conflicting for some.

Salaams!
Jerry

NewMuslim

01-28-2007, 09:08 PM

As for reading the hadiths they are becoming more and more confusing when some say its okay and some say its not..this from a non Muslims stand point makes Islaam seem way to conflicting for some.

As Salaamu Alaykum
When Hadith are in conflict, one of them are obviously wrong. That's why all Hadith have to be supported by the Qur'an. Also, all Hadith must be seen in proper view. Remember that Hadith was put together by man while the Qur'an was put together by Allah (SWT).

I love sunnah.org and I'm glad that you found that site. Insha'Allah it'll help you.

SeekerofTruth

01-28-2007, 09:16 PM

:salam2:

Read this hadith.

Volumn 007, Book 069, Hadith Number 494B.
------------------------------------------
Narated By Abu 'Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari : That he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful.

Look at the context in which musical instruments are contained. Alongside illegal sexual intercouse, drinking of alcohol and wearing silk. Things we all know are haram.

Here's something else you should read:

musical instruments become popular ; when the last ones of this Ummah curse the first ones --- then let them expect a red wind, or the earth to swallow them, or to be transformed into animals.'"

These are all bad things which will happen when the end of the world is near.

We seen most, if not all of these signs now.

wasalam
But it doesnt say all instruments,the way I read it,it is referring to instruments we know are haraam and people saying those instruments would be halal?All the other things mentioned are haram,so why wouldnt the type of instruments that are referred to be????

Who predicted that,I seem to recall in the Quran that it says Muhammad would not know the future?So it couldnt have been Muhammad.

SeekerofTruth

01-28-2007, 09:22 PM

As Salaamu Alaykum
When Hadith are in conflict, one of them are obviously wrong. That's why all Hadith have to be supported by the Qur'an. Also, all Hadith must be seen in proper view. Remember that Hadith was put together by man while the Qur'an was put together by Allah (SWT).

I love sunnah.org and I'm glad that you found that site. Insha'Allah it'll help you.

I am seeing that..An yes Quran come first since it is suppose to be the Words of God(dont take that as an offense,Im simply stating that it is believed to be the words of God as a Seeker of Truth learning about Islaam)..And as a learner of Islaam I will put the Quran 1st and then Sunnah,if the Sunnah seems to contradict the Quran,I will have to study it further and then if it still contradicts,I will put it to the side and accept Quran.
Yes Sunnah.org looks to be a very good site so far.

SeekerofTruth

01-28-2007, 10:05 PM

Asalamu Alaikum All..

If it is God's will that I revert to Islaam,this will probably be one of the guidelines I follow concerning music. But I will not allow myself to offend others by listening to music around them.Besides Im not a big listener to music in the first place.But I do not want to leave one stone unturned,if you know what I mean.

Peace!
Jerry

Abuyahya

01-29-2007, 08:27 AM

Salam calikum, I was pretty surprised that this topic has been going on for so long. I didnt read all 12 pages but i read some. I know as a fact that music is Haram to listen to, but it is allowed in times of war..ie Jihad nasheeds.. and that at those times drums are allowed, and also i've read the hadith of when Abu Bakr r.a became upset with his daughter, the mother of the believers, because there was a little girl singing for Ayisha and so Abu bakr r.a told her how dare she bring music into the house of the prophet s.a.w, whereupon the Prophet s.a.w turned and said, 'Let them alone, Abu Bakr, for this is a festival-day.'" Keep in mind this was indoors and it was on a day of festival and there was no music. But to play the piano or anyother instruments or to listen to any type of music..even if its arabic or english or hindi or whatever its still haram, and if you want to know these kinds of questions go to reliable sites like islamqa.com

glenn

01-29-2007, 09:02 AM

I believe singing and playing instruments are halaal, if they are done for the rememberance of Allah (SWT). If it is haraam, then every act, including you being on your computer reading this, driving a car to mosque, catching a plane to go to Mecca, are all halaal.
Remember, back in the day of the Prophet (SAW), singing and music were used together with the worship of false gods. These days, it is used mainly to express one's hopes & dreams, as well as to worship Allah in Christian churches. Remember that the Q'araan is sung during salaat.
I am not a music fan personally, so this post is not defending the act of singing.

Salaams.

I was meant to say:

"If it is haraam, then every act, including you being on your computer reading this, driving a car to mosque and, catching a plane to go to Mecca, are all HARAAM."

Finally, the Qu'ran also tells us to use our intellect and observation. If this wasn't the case, muslims wouldn't have invented/introduced numbers and mathematics, medicine, hospitals, etc. We would still be in the dark ages with the Christians.

Wa Alaikum Salaam.

AlbaneeMuslimah

01-29-2007, 09:47 AM

Assalamu alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu!!!

First of all I want to introduce myself : I'm a sister from Albania :hijabi:
studying medicine in Italy.I came across this site for months and I really learned about our pure religion.

Concearning the issue of music, a totally agree that IS HARAM.
Someone will ask :SMILY309: Well, brothers and sisters ask your self:

Do you want to waste your time in this way? Who will bring you again that time? Are you concentrated, after listening music, in your salat? Have you ever think that when you are down or sad, is better calm down your heart with KUR'AN?

After this questions, I have to admitt, that are some brothers and sisters justifying theirselfs by saing that in our modern times,there are shuyoukhs that allow music.This is a very sad situation for our ummah:astag:

MAY ALLAH SWT GIVE TO ALL MUSLIMS THE LIGHT TO SEE THE TRUTH! Amin

Mabsoot

01-29-2007, 09:56 AM

Assalamu alaykum,

This thread discussed Music and has gone on for some time.. 115 replies and it is 12 Pages Long!! Evidences have been presented.... It is shameful for some Muslims to come and write replies ignoring all that has been said.

So..

this topic is Closed now.

Wasalam