RED MOSQUE [Archive] - TTI - Turn To Islam -

View Full Version : RED MOSQUE

eemaan1

07-06-2007, 10:43 AM

:salam2:

Can som1 plz tell me wats goin on in pakistan? Lal masjid? r these student right or wrong or is this whole thing a ploy?
:blackhijab:

Mabsoot

07-06-2007, 12:29 PM

Globalpeace

07-06-2007, 01:50 PM

Asslamo Allaikum Brothers/Sisters,

I change my position (from my post on TTI a few weeks ago!) in the light of rejection of Lal-Masjid scholars to the sincere advice & call of Mufti Rafi Usmani, Mufti Taqi Usmani, Shaykh Saleem-ullah & others, who are the senior-most scholars of Pakistan!

View of Scholars:

Almost all major scholars of Pakistan have endorsed the principle of establishment of Shariah BUT REJECTED the tactics used by the scholars of Lal-Masjid.

No Muslim in their right mind would endorse brothels, *!*!*!*! movies & everything but the tactics used are denounced by the scholars.

Mufti Taqi Usmani actually said to Shaykh Abdul Aziz Sahab (who later escaped from the Mosque in Niqaab): Your tactics are neither correct nor have any sound reasoning or logic behind them!

Realities on the Ground:

The cease-fire brokered between Busharraf government & Lal-Masjid by Shaykh Fadhlur-Rahman (leader of opposition, Pakistan National Assembly) was denounced by Lal-Masjid scholars YET one of them choose to escape the Mosque with a Niqaab with this wife while hundreds of parents were pleading the Army NOT to shoot at their children besieged in the Mosque!

In my humble opinion the government has shown restraint while the scholars of Lal-Masjid have chosen to reject the advice of senior scholars of the country!

As I said in my previous post that I went to School in Pakistan across the street from Lal-Masjid and did Jummuah and other prayers behind the Father of the two scholars in the current crisis!

Mabsoot

07-06-2007, 02:20 PM

:salam2:

Indeed! and it is very silly and foolish situation! Astaghfirullah.

And anyway, where are all the cries about the various shrines and Mosques built over graves where people go and pray to the dead .. or where they keep disabled and disfigured "Rat children" who they think can give them good luck?? So much supersticion, Shirk (Associating partners with Allah) and Bidah (innovating new practises into our perfect and complete Islam) is happening in many of our countries.

If people had really got their priorities straight and learnt Islam properly, and were basing it all on actual Quran and Sunnah with understanding of the early generation of Muslims, we would not have these problems or many of the problems that are with us today in the Islamic world.

wasalam

sand3091

07-07-2007, 03:36 AM

Asslam o Alaikum, Brother I am a Pkistani. I realy don't know in detail about whats going on in Pakistan. but I have question. If an Imam is asking to bring in shariah law in a country that is Islamic republic, is that wrong. I am not in favour of what happnened. It shouldn't be done. But is it not right to stand stern against the evil.
I think we have a problem here. You see quran says in Sura Al Maidah. i am not sure about the verse number. I think verse 5 or 6. that if a perverter trnasgressor comes to you with any news, then makes sure that the news you have got is true before you start spreading it and inturn you create greater mischeif. and then you curse yourself for what you have done.
there are these people who create innovations in deen or Islam in Pakistan, but there are good people there as well. who spend there lives to spread Islam.
My friend please make sure before you spread the news. the verse that I qouted is not the exact meaning of that verse so please for exact translation read Quran.
I don't mean to be a part of politics.

virtualeye

07-07-2007, 04:45 AM

AssalaamuAlaikum,

I do not support the overall strategy of lal masjid Molanas but could anyon give me solution to the problems of prostitution all around when govenment itself not only avoids taking action but majority of parliment members are customers of such whorehouses?

There were two ways:

1- Government takes action against whore houses
2- The whorehouses keep on doing business while the people around those whorehouses become sick of such activities.

The first option did not happen EVER. The second option is not acceptable. Then? Would you lal masjid "Mullah" bashers give me solution to it?

For the people who think there is such thing called "Government" in Pakistan then FYI, there is no such thing called "Government" in Pakistan.
This Busharraf toolbox is not government but a curse to the lives in Pakistan.

Even in a worst uncivilized country, Can you imagine any Chief Justice of supreme court being treated like a 3rd class sweeper? Well, this happened in "Islamic Republic of Pakistan". It has become "***** Republic of Pakistan" not "Islamic Republic".

People are moaning that "Government writ" is being challenged by lal masjid dudes. May I ask such hypocrites where was the "Government write" when Massonic Nato forces bombed Pakistani areas and killed 80 men and children, among which 5 children were from the same parents???
May I ask where was the writ of government when such incidents happend again and again killing dozens of Innocent Muslim flowerlike children?

Hypocrites are very efficient to bark about those "Extremists, Mullahs, blaaaa blaaaa..." but they keep mum when a country like America raids their citizens.

What is more worse? Kidnapping 5 or 6 people with due respect for a couple of days or making the mince of dozens of people through missile attacks many many times?????

Why is that?

Answer: MIGHT IS RIGHT.
You can go smash the lal masjid students, then go do it.
Your tail catches fire if you ask for your due right of sovereignty from America or NATO, then keep on prostrating for them.

Lal Masjid people were not right in their action, but nobody gives a damn that their action was infact a reaction to the filth spread by government.
Same as nobody gives a damn to the dozen times raped sister of an Iraqi, but everyone condemns his reaction of suicide bombing.

For the Urdu readers following column is enough:

Globalpeace

07-07-2007, 10:09 AM

W-Salam,

When I was in school we used to listen to Maulana Abdullah's (RA) talks and Jummuah Khutbah and often General Zia-ul-Haq (RA) used to show up because at that time Lal Masjid was the main Masjid in Islamabad as Faisal Masjid was still under construction!

He (RA) used to rip into General Zia-ul-Haq (RA)'s policies and openly criticise him for unIslamic programs and tactics and General Zia-ul-Haq (RA) just used to put his head down and listen!

Then the Saudees funded Faisal Masjid and it BECAME a classic example of Saudi Islam, i.e. NO POLITICS! let the rulers do what-ever they want....talk about all sorts of Aqeedah/Shirk/Bid'aa stuff amongst the masses BUT the rulers are above the law!

I am glad that Maulana's son have taken a stand similar to what their Father used to do!

I am glad that Islamabad is getting back to the way it used to be! Criticism and objection to rulers in their face in front of people to let everyone know that there is something wrong and there are things VERY WRONG in Pakistan at the moment!

Open criticism and objection is a sign of FREE SPEECH in Islam and this was practised abundantly in the time of the Khulafa and there have been many Scholars in Islam who have raised the slogan of Islam in abject and dire circumstances and this is the hallmark of courageous Ulama (the ones who are NOT government funded and have a back bone!)

1) So I like all Pakistanees and Muslims all over the world support the cause whole-heartedly.

2) I also support the Dawah i.e. visiting the video shops and *!*!*!*! shops and giving them Dawah to shut these stations of vice!

I however along with all major scholars of Pakistan, DON’T SUPPORT the direct confrontation with Pakistan Army…These soldiers DO NOT want to fire on Pakistani citizens and they particularly don’t want to open fire on Muslims in a Mosque!

This sort of confrontation will lead to lose of life on both sides and in the end Muslims will suffer!

Lastly I must say that Faisal Masjid (Saudi funded) is a cancer on the heart of Islamabad as when Tony Blair was visited a few months ago Busharraf government ordered Asar Adhan to be delayed so it will not interfere with Blair’s visit! There were protests all over Islamabad and Government had to issue an explanation in the local papers!

Bring in criticism to Government (and everybody else) and Dawah to the masses as they are part of Islam, but lets say NO to OPEN confrontation with the Army!

In Islam NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW!
AssalaamuAlaikum,

I do not support the overall strategy of lal masjid Molanas but could anyon give me solution to the problems of prostitution all around when govenment itself not only avoids taking action but majority of parliment members are customers of such whorehouses?

There were two ways:

1- Government takes action against whore houses
2- The whorehouses keep on doing business while the people around those whorehouses become sick of such activities.

The first option did not happen EVER. The second option is not acceptable. Then? Would you lal masjid "Mullah" bashers give me solution to it?

For the people who think there is such thing called "Government" in Pakistan then FYI, there is no such thing called "Government" in Pakistan.
This Busharraf toolbox is not government but a curse to the lives in Pakistan.

Even in a worst uncivilized country, Can you imagine any Chief Justice of supreme court being treated like a 3rd class sweeper? Well, this happened in "Islamic Republic of Pakistan". It has become "***** Republic of Pakistan" not "Islamic Republic".

People are moaning that "Government writ" is being challenged by lal masjid dudes. May I ask such hypocrites where was the "Government write" when Massonic Nato forces bombed Pakistani areas and killed 80 men and children, among which 5 children were from the same parents???
May I ask where was the writ of government when such incidents happend again and again killing dozens of Innocent Muslim flowerlike children?

Hypocrites are very efficient to bark about those "Extremists, Mullahs, blaaaa blaaaa..." but they keep mum when a country like America raids their citizens.

What is more worse? Kidnapping 5 or 6 people with due respect for a couple of days or making the mince of dozens of people through missile attacks many many times?????

Why is that?

Answer: MIGHT IS RIGHT.
You can go smash the lal masjid students, then go do it.
Your tail catches fire if you ask for your due right of sovereignty from America or NATO, then keep on prostrating for them.

Lal Masjid people were not right in their action, but nobody gives a damn that their action was infact a reaction to the filth spread by government.
Same as nobody gives a damn to the dozen times raped sister of an Iraqi, but everyone condemns his reaction of suicide bombing.

For the Urdu readers following column is enough:

MOSABJA

07-07-2007, 07:34 PM

Islamabad, 6 July (AKI) - As security forces continue to besiege and attack the Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) in Islamabad, where militants and seminary students are holed up for the fourth day, one of the key mediatory figures who has the trust of both the Pakistani establishment and Islamist Mujahadeen circles, is deputy Maulana Shah Abdul Aziz. Known as the "voice of mujahadeen" in the Pakistani parliament, the former Taliban commander in Jabulussiraj (Afghanistan) and son of a famous anti Soviet mujahadeen, he is a local hero in the remote North West Frontier Province (NWFP). Adnkronos International (AKI) asked him his assessment of the situation.

AKI: The operation on Lal Masjid is going on with full force. There are an unknown number of casualties believed to be into the dozens. How do you see this development.

Shah Abdul Aziz: I have been giving a constant message. We need to understand that we are all Pakistanis. Pakistanis should be dealt as Pakistanis even if they did something wrong. The dealing with foreigners should be different, if they transgress. For example if General Pervez Musharraf is aiming to confront the transgression and breach of law he should use force against the NATO aircraft who violate our borders and kill innocent citizens.

I utterly disagree with Lal Masjid the way they took the law into their own hands but this is not the issue on which they should have been taken on. The issue is the accomplishment of a US agenda in this region. Now you can see the statements of the British PM and when we would be counting the corpses of our brothers on the both sides (from security forces and Lal Masjid) we would be hearing tappreciation from Bush as well.

AKI: Maulana Abdul Aziz, [one of the two leaders of the Lal Masjid which has been challenging the authority of the state and seeking to impose Sharia law] has been arrested. Many people believe the way he was arrested [trying to escape the complex disguised as a woman under a long burqa] does not fit a person who was preaching to others to sacrifice their lives for the cause.

Shah Abdul Aziz: This is all government propaganda. The night Maulana Abdul Aziz was arrested and brought to (state run TV ) PTV, I finished a talk-show and was on the way out with the anchor of the programme. I saw Maulana Aziz along with security officials. He hugged me and refused to shake hands with the presenter and he immediately told me that he was deceived.

He was called by a senior official of an intelligence agency with whom he has been in touch for long. Since this man could not enter into the mosque to meet him [to save his cover and identity] he asked Maulana Aziz to come down to Aabpara police station [situated on a walking distance from the mosque] and asked him to wear a Burqa to avoid identification. Maulana Abdul Aziz admitted that he and his brother Abdul Rasheed Ghazi did the same many times in the past when they were declared wanted by the government, but when he came out he was arrested.

AKI: What repercussions do you foresee from this operation in other parts of the country? And why six parties religious alliance MMA leadership is keeping its distance except Qazi Hussain Ahmed?

Shah Abdul Aziz: A very big reaction which nobody would expect. I am trying my very best to avoid this clash between Mujahadeen and our beloved Pakistan Army. I am in contact with Abdul Rasheed Ghazi every hour of the day and trying to pursue him to show resilience and talk to the government to show restraint because if both sides don’t show prudence a fierce storm is heading towards us.

I have similar complaints about the MMA - why they are not playing the role to put pressure on the government? I tell you there are reports of armed clashes between the security forces and the members of TNSM [militant group Tehrik-i-Nifaz-i-Shariat-i-Mohammadi] in Swat and Dir. I have sent repeated messages to the government that it is a matter of days that a fierce reaction would emerge from our tribal area, Balochistan and other parts of North West Frontier Province. The mujahadeens and Army would be confronting each other. I am requesting to everybody but nobody is listening to me.

AKI: What is the perspective of this conflict: is it international or local

Shah Abdul Aziz: We should think and review what we are doing. We are killing our own people for somebody else's cause. Musharraf makes fun of [Afghan president Hamid] Karzai but I say he is a far better head of state than Musharraf at least he has the guts to shed crocodile tears on the casualties caused by NATO bombardment.

Musharraf does not even condemn the NATO aggression. ISPR (inter-services public relations of Pakistan armed forces) shamelessly admits the transgression of NATO aircraft and their assaults and says that it would not allow it to happen again. I say that even if somebody is involved in terrorism it is the responsibility of our armed forces to carry out the operation. It should not be for the foreigners not by the foreigners.

sister harb

07-08-2007, 05:32 AM

More about this matter:

http://www.alqassam.ps/vb3/showthread.php?t=6461

:shymuslima1:

Aapa

07-08-2007, 12:31 PM

Salaam,

Sister your link was an eye-opener. We are in such dire need of a true leader.

virtualeye

07-08-2007, 01:11 PM

More about this matter:

http://www.alqassam.ps/vb3/showthread.php?t=6461

:shymuslima1:

This link is pretty biased. I have very clearly mentioned the reasoning about why this extreme situation is occurring. Would anybody bother to read my previous comments in this thread?

Aapa

07-08-2007, 02:55 PM

Salaam Brother,

I read your comments. You write the truth. I reread your comments. We all have concerns about the state of Pakistan. There are simple solutions; yet no one to lead. The state of the world is caught up in appeasing the US.
The Muslim world took aid from the US...and now they have to pay the devil back. The price is Muslim blood.
As I write I know very few will read what I have written. There is little action to support my thoughts...I believe...I know that the Victory belongs to Allah and Allah alone...
So Brother do not be dismayed. Have hope and keep up the good work. I am with all my heart eagerly awaiting the next meterior shower..it is time to expell the servants of the servants of the devil...Allah will show us how.

Globalpeace

07-08-2007, 03:44 PM

More about this matter:

http://www.alqassam.ps/vb3/showthread.php?t=6461

:shymuslima1:

Salaam,

Sister your link was an eye-opener. We are in such dire need of a true leader.

Asslamo Allaikum,

You can tell by the way these students are holding the AK-47 that most of them are cow-boys!

May Allah (SWT) help us all (Ameen).

Aapa! These guys REFUSED to listen to Mufti Taqi Usmani who is their teacher and delegation of leading Scholars who asked them to give up!

MOSABJA

07-08-2007, 05:06 PM

Let me correct it .

1)They refused to listen to Mufti on the issue of CHILDREN LIBRARY .

2) Now when the operation has started the other brother ABDUL RASHEED GHAZI is prepared to SURRENDER to leave madressah . But He does not want to be arrested as he thinks he would be humiliated in the same way as his brother.

3) Now ULEMAS are calling the GOVERNMENT to accept GHAZI's offer .But it seems NOW MUSH is HUNGRY FOR BLOOD. Last night GHAZI claimed that 300 STUDENTS were killed.

4) He says that government deceived ABDUL AZIZ by giving him a secret MESSAGE that if he comes out wearing a BURQA the OFFICIAL would meet him and solve the crisis.He also says that STOPPING WATER,FOOD,ELECTRICITY,GAS PLUS NOT ALLOWING MEDIA TO SEE THE GRAVITY OF SITUATION IN MASJID is the Government's BRUTAL act similar to Forces of YAZID.He said that after his MARTYRDOM he should be Buried in Masjid and His sacrifice would TRIGGER ISLAMIC REVOLUTION.

I think they are WRONG in the way they are enforcing SHARIAH but now WHEN THEY ARE WILLING TO SURRENDER THEN WHY THE HELL THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT THINKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE link IS A BIASED ONE .One SHOULD KNOW THE SITUATION ON GROUND.

Globalpeace

07-08-2007, 05:33 PM

Asslamo Allaikum,

According to the best of my understanding and discussions (yesterday) with a leading Maulana from Pakistan, visiting UK!

Both Maulans are students of Mufti Taqi Usmani and they BOTH refused to listen to Mufti Taqi Usmani & Maulana Saleem-ullah and Maulana Fazlur-Rahman, the later negotiated SAFE passage out of the Mosque and no reprisals from Musharraf government....

Mufti Taqi Usmani said on record, " The evidence that they are presenting for their actions is out of context and doesn't conform to the understanding of the Jamhoor of the Muslim Scholars"

Allah (SWT) knows best!

P.S: Personally, I can ONLY make dua for someone who have balatantly ignored the Kabair (major) Ulama of the country....Their heart is in the right place, their strategy and methods are way off!

P.P.S: Yes I understand that Both Maulans are ready to surender now, but Busharraf is hungry for blood of around 2000 innocent kids (yes, these are children both boys & girls)....Begharat, Besharam!

If Busharraf DOESN'T BACK DOWN SOON! This will have serious repurcussions in Pakistan. This has the potentical to become the beginning of the end!

Let me correct it .

1)They refused to listen to Mufti on the issue of CHILDREN LIBRARY .

2) Now when the operation has started the other brother ABDUL RASHEED GHAZI is prepared to SURRENDER to leave madressah . But He does not want to be arrested as he thinks he would be humiliated in the same way as his brother.

3) Now ULEMAS are calling the GOVERNMENT to accept GHAZI's offer .But it seems NOW MUSH is HUNGRY FOR BLOOD. Last night GHAZI claimed that 300 STUDENTS were killed.

4) He says that government deceived ABDUL AZIZ by giving him a secret MESSAGE that if he comes out wearing a BURQA the OFFICIAL would meet him and solve the crisis.He also says that STOPPING WATER,FOOD,ELECTRICITY,GAS PLUS NOT ALLOWING MEDIA TO SEE THE GRAVITY OF SITUATION IN MASJID is the Government's BRUTAL act similar to Forces of YAZID.He said that after his MARTYRDOM he should be Buried in Masjid and His sacrifice would TRIGGER ISLAMIC REVOLUTION.

I think they are WRONG in the way they are enforcing SHARIAH but now WHEN THEY ARE WILLING TO SURRENDER THEN WHY THE HELL THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT THINKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE link IS A BIASED ONE .One SHOULD KNOW THE SITUATION ON GROUND.

MOSABJA

07-08-2007, 05:46 PM

I am living in Pakistan.all Channels cover the event LIVE

MUFTI TAQI USMANI said in a program "MERAY MUTABIQ" on GEO that LAL MASJID cirsis is not impossible to resolve as MAULANA has agreed on many ISSUES .Now the ball is in the court of GOVERNMENT.They should give SAFE PASSAGE to MAULANA.

Also right now in the same program MUFTI MUHAMMAF NAEEM said that LAL MASJID were wrong in the beginning but the STOPPING OF WATER,BOMBARDMENT OF MASJID,ARMY TREATING STUDENTS LIKE CRIMINALS,MISTREATMENT TO WOMEN who came out is an Inhuman act.

sister harb

07-08-2007, 07:41 PM

**********************

muharram23

07-08-2007, 08:46 PM

al-fajr

07-08-2007, 09:00 PM

:salam2:
P.P.S: Yes I understand that Both Maulans are ready to surender now, but Busharraf is hungry for blood of around 2000 innocent kids (yes, these are children both boys & girls)....Begharat, Besharam!

If Busharraf DOESN'T BACK DOWN SOON! This will have serious repurcussions in Pakistan. This has the potentical to become the beginning of the end!

So ure saying...(i still dont get it) that musharraf is looking for some sort of political advatage now by not allowing it to end when the chance has arrived for it to end?

when u say "repurcussions", do u mean musharraf has to go, and will that definitely mean they get somone like nawaz sharif or bhutto (Allah forbid!) back?! :eek: or what other repurcussions are u talking about?

TruthandJustice

07-09-2007, 12:59 AM

Assalamualaikum,

Peace be with you all, my reply is that placing the lives of innocent people in danger whether its by the leaders of the Masjid or the government is not correct. I agree with Bro. Mabsoot, the leaders of the masjid should know that this is not the image supporters of the Shariah need, the majority of the Muslim world does believe in the Shariah and we have great, great expectations from that rule of government. We need people who can correctly apply it but they must try their best to come to power legally, if they came to power in a legal manner but are opposed for no other reason but their willingness to apply Shariah, then they have a right to consolidate their legitimate power.

I believe that what is going on here goes deeper than what we are seeing right now, many people are asking how the leaders of the masjid were able to collect such arms right under the governments nose. Many people see this whole affair being taken advantage of by the government to justify Musharrafs hold on power, particularly in front of Western governments. What I want my Muslin and nonMuslims readers to know is that the roots of this affair and the roots of extremism in Pakistan/Afghanistan are directly tied to the Cold War. Billions in arms were sent in by the Russians, American, Saudis, and the Pakistan Government. Although I believe that war was justified and that the Russians had no right to invade Afghanistan no one took responsibility for the implications of the conflict. Both countries were left scarred from the war with armed groups, some of them indoctrinated in some extremist ideologies (yes the CIA and Saudis had a hand here) which were used to help in the war effort. If the countries which benefited from this war had helped to rebuild and strengthen these nations I am sure we would not be seeing such conflicts today.

Allah Knows Best, I have written this to the best of my knowledge.

MOSABJA

07-09-2007, 01:53 AM

I also think that there is some thing under the CARPET .As Maulana said his brother was deceived by OFFICIAL(Must be the one he trusted).SO MAY BE AGENCIES HAVE FOOLED THEM.May be they told them that hate MUSH so go and CREATE the Mess .After they did all that .The agencies might have dodged.

ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST.

No Media is allowed to go inside or even near to MASJID(specially after flight of UAV PREDATOR which Media SPOTTED) .There are two extreme views One from LAL MASJID.Other from Government that CHILDREN ARE TAKEN HOSTAGE.
We cannot say who is RIGHT and who is WRONG(as we dont know the truth).whether children are HOSTAGE or some thing like that .

1)But here comes a QUESTION if they were HOSTAGE then HOW COME 1500 STUDENTS ALREADY SURRENDERED .If they wanted to take Hostage why did they allow all of them to go ????

2)Government says the WANTED TERRORIST are in there.BUT MAULANA has said HE WOULD ALLOW INVESTIGATION THAT NONE OF HIS STUDENTS ARE ALQAEDA OR WANTED.

Still the MASJID does not enjoy support among ULEMAS and THE MILTANTS(MEHSUDS,Haji Umar,NAZIR are SILENT) and MASSES.but all of us are CONCERNED not with CLERICS but with LOSS OF HUMAN LIVES on the behest of Americans.

Aapa

07-09-2007, 02:11 AM

virtualeye

07-09-2007, 06:11 AM

Salaam,

Dearest respected brothers and sisters in Islam...I ask you humbly to tell me what can I do? I live in a place so remote yet my heart hurts...Pakistan is the land my parents lived for. What suggestions do you have for us...how can we help..are there letters to be written...prayers to be said...no more bloodshed..no more...I am serious..what minor role can we play to stop the craziness?

AssalaamuAlaikum,

I suggest , nurture your children with the character of Salahudin, keep the Mujahid's blood alive, yet save them from becoming extremists like Lal Masjid (Red Mosque).

Why the prayers of Muslim Ummah are not accepted? Because Allah SWT does not help those who do not help themselves. Our prayers will not work if we dont progress in the field of technology, education and love our lives yet do not get scared of death more than infidels.

The biggest tragedy in Muslim ummah is that people get emotional and choose jerky reactions instead of long term durable action. They are very active to burn the puppets of Bush and American flag, but these stupid dont give their few moments to some Muslim brothers. The can build a school, can make better citizens except to jerk around and smash their own properties as protest against those infidels who even become happy to see us jerking around and damaging our own properties.

Why did one tiny country called "Israel" win the 1967 war against all worthless Arab regimes? It is called, science, technology and strategy.

All the muslims can do is to sell crude oil, they cant even process it, which might give them many many petroleum products which are the backbone of industrialism.

I hope you get my point. Keep the Islamic Faith alive in your children yet do not let them jerk around so cheaply.

WassalaamuAlaikum

sand3091

07-09-2007, 09:33 AM

ASLAM O ALIKUM
Brother Muharram 23 thanks for the correction. i hope the message is convayed.

All this media is in the hands of these wicked people. who for some reason are after the image of muslims and Islam.

May Allah help us all

adnanade

07-09-2007, 11:34 AM

Asslam o alikum
All muslims,
what ever govt is doing is totally dramma. He want to praised by USA and want to get more money from USA.They were alreay taking lots of fund from USA to war on terror issue but use it by itself coz they know Jihad is a Pillar of islam and they cannot finished it and according to Quran and Hadith Jihad will remain active till judment day. so no one can stop Jihad.America put pressue on Musharraf because they get some report and if you want to know more fact watch CNN special investigation unit you can see the facts.USA blame that pakistan send Mujahideen in Kashmir but Musharraf defend that they are freedom fighter and not pakistani but kashmiri.Every one know that what is going on even media but no one is telling the truth.Now Musharraf is in a situation if he want to satisfy American then there will a terror in all over the country and if he release them America will not give him any fund and they will prove that he is not in terror favor and obviously if you visit any army mess you will see the Ayat and Hadith on Jihad and on which they brain wash army officers to fight in war.But Musharraf disrepute islam in a very bad way and kill our sisters and brothers but still people are in favour of Musharaff even Musharraf is not willingly agree with this just due to American pressue he is doing so.Please know the fact and pray to God.

adnan

Globalpeace

07-09-2007, 06:52 PM

Asslamo Allaikum,

OK! I disagree with the actions of the Scholars in Lal-Masjid but watch this video; its in Urdu but you will get the point!

Busharraf government made the scholar come on National State TV in Niqaab and made him lift the Niqaab on live TV (in utter humiliation) …

This is the analysis of a secular private TV channel and they guy is saying that look “We disagree with the approach of these scholars but to present a scholars who has taught Qur’aan & Sunnah on National TV in Niqaab is derogatory and humiliating to any decent human being”

The commentator (a secular guy) is saying that Busharraf government could have handled it better by putting him on TV in a dignified manner so he can say that look I am being treated well, instead they humiliated him which has hardened the resolve of the rest of the people (inside the mosque) as they can see HOW they will be treated if they surrender!

Shaykh in turn is saying that he was told that if he can come out the Government will negotiate, therefore he risked his life to come out to negotiate surrender!

Instead he is being parded out in Niqaab & humiliated on National TV!

wMpiMgqN88Q

alkathiri

07-09-2007, 11:49 PM

AssalaamuAlaikum,

I suggest , nurture your children with the character of Salahudin, keep the Mujahid's blood alive, yet save them from becoming extremists like Lal Masjid (Red Mosque).

Why the prayers of Muslim Ummah are not accepted? Because Allah SWT does not help those who do not help themselves. Our prayers will not work if we dont progress in the field of technology, education and love our lives yet do not get scared of death more than infidels.

The biggest tragedy in Muslim ummah is that people get emotional and choose jerky reactions instead of long term durable action. They are very active to burn the puppets of Bush and American flag, but these stupid dont give their few moments to some Muslim brothers. The can build a school, can make better citizens except to jerk around and smash their own properties as protest against those infidels who even become happy to see us jerking around and damaging our own properties.

Why did one tiny country called "Israel" win the 1967 war against all worthless Arab regimes? It is called, science, technology and strategy.

All the muslims can do is to sell crude oil, they cant even process it, which might give them many many petroleum products which are the backbone of industrialism.

I hope you get my point. Keep the Islamic Faith alive in your children yet do not let them jerk around so cheaply.

WassalaamuAlaikum

Assalamualaikum akhi,

Very well said. Good advice !!

Asslamo Allaikum,

OK! I disagree with the actions of the Scholars in Lal-Masjid but watch this video; its in Urdu but you will get the point!

Busharraf government made the scholar come on National State TV in Niqaab and made him lift the Niqaab on live TV (in utter humiliation) …

This is the analysis of a secular private TV channel and they guy is saying that look “We disagree with the approach of these scholars but to present a scholars who has taught Qur’aan & Sunnah on National TV in Niqaab is derogatory and humiliating to any decent human being”

The commentator (a secular guy) is saying that Busharraf government could have handled it better by putting him on TV in a dignified manner so he can say that look I am being treated well, instead they humiliated him which has hardened the resolve of the rest of the people (inside the mosque) as they can see HOW they will be treated if they surrender!

Shaykh in turn is saying that he was told that if he can come out the Government will negotiate, therefore he risked his life to come out to negotiate surrender!

Instead he is being parded out in Niqaab & humiliated on National TV!

wMpiMgqN88Q

Assalamualaikum

Hmmm.....:shymuslima1:

Aapa

07-10-2007, 12:44 AM

Salaam,

I think we are in agreement that something is very wrong. I think we are in agreement that the current powers are in the wrong. We know that a single splinter group can not undertake the needed change in powers.
Yes, science and technology are important. However, that is not the answer. The answer lies within the hearts of Muslims. The answers lie in the need to remember we are not be afraid in the face of fear.
I am sounding redundant, forgive me.
I am raising my sons to honor Islam and all that is Muslim. I pray that in the conduct of my life I can honor Islam, too.

Do we need to go back to our homeland and work?

Aapa

07-10-2007, 03:05 AM

Salaam,

article on Pakistan:http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070709/wl_csm/osugar_1

virtualeye

07-10-2007, 08:43 AM

Asslamo Allaikum,

The commentator (a secular guy) is saying that Busharraf government could have handled it better by putting him on TV in a dignified manner so he can say that look I am being treated well, instead they humiliated him which has hardened the resolve of the rest of the people (inside the mosque) as they can see HOW they will be treated if they surrender!

Huh? Secular guy?

I understand that he belongs to the monopolizing Jang group of Badmashz, and he is not a scholar on Islam either, But he is not that La-Deen person that we call him totally secular. He made one of the best videos in the history of Pakistan. i,.e., The Hidden Truth, End of Times. The ultimate video about the end of time. The video produced by Haroom Yahya about this subject is not even comparable to to the video produced by this 'secular'.

May Allah SWT bless this person and bring him to true way of Islam that I can ask you to please keep mum from calling him secular. :)

Wassalaam

Aapa

07-10-2007, 08:52 AM

Salaam,

and we wake up to more Muslim blood shed for what?
and i remain stupified
and i remain resloved that Allah will guide us
and Busharuff did not lose a wink of sleep.

Smee

07-10-2007, 11:27 AM

I don't know whether this will be of any use at all, but from another forum that I am a part of, a sister living in Islamabad wrote this...

(SISTER IN ISLOO)"the only reason why i am putting this here is...there are so many of you who are very politically charged and like to stay on top of things. Story is:

Islamabad is a small place. So, what we hear from people on-the-scene is very different from what we are seeing on TV and all. I was very shocked and asked them why they don't tell all this on TV? They were all like, "welcome to PK, jani."

...can you believe the reporters haven't been near Lal Masjid for DAyS? The footage they're showing is old or Government 'passed.'

...Do you know who backed the Ghazi Brothers in the first place? ISI. They say, in Pakistan, the hierarchy goes this way...At the third place is the PrimeMinister, at second, the President, and the leading decision maker is the Head of ISI (Inter Services Intelligence...our FBI/CIA) What happened now?

...Do you know the Government is suffering loss after loss and trained Commandoes cannot overcome Masjid Fighters?? How come? Is that possible?

Tell you what all these things point towards: third party involvement. Who? Why? THAT will come later. But all the stuff that the TV is showing is BAKWAS. Bull *!*!*!*!. All of it, from A to Z. They say 'cease fire' or 'lifting of curfew' but i have heard, with my own ears, machine guns thundering NON STOP. Not even a breather. Islamabad under curfew? LOL...we are all going on as before. Only the 'war zone' is closed. What is pissing me off (pardon the french, ladies) is that everyone feels entitled to an opinion. I feel like yelling at everyone 'You just know the one-sided situation yet! How can you form a judgement.' People are pawns in the hands of the Government. It plays them as it wants. Sometimes, i feel most Pakistanis are so naive an trusting, they put their strings in the hands of the government and it yanks them in whatever direction it wants..."

(RESPONSE FROM FELLOW) "that's unusual because i've heard quite the opposite from ppl in the know in isloo...and it seems funny how the media e.g. geo tv etc would toe the gov't line wrt this situation and not report what's going on the ground especially when they've been the ones so vociferious against mush and his regime's handeling of the CJ situation from day 1 and continue to be and also regarding other issues...and i find it extremely hard to believe that the ghazi brother who escaped in a burka went because the gov't 'asked' him to do so and come for negotiations??...even he couldn't have fallen for THAT...and i don't agree with your statement that most pakistanis are pawns of the gov't...infact, just the opposite...most of them are extremely jaded and cynical of anything and everything the gov't does..."

(SISTER IN ISLOO) "when i say most...i don't mean most of US sitting here at this forum. You have to realize how many of the 'most' are un educated. They are the raw power of this nation...whatever we may be...we're hardly the type to get out on the roads and do something.

No, I am pretty sure of my info. Even i was surprised at the Geo TV thing because i saw them as the only responsible reporting agnecy who puts the facts as they are...but the problem is..if they run the news that's going around, what've they got as a backup to prove? And whatsoever, remember, this is PK...one time or the other, they HAVE to toe the line. The government put a ban on coverage of the CJ event, who was able to do anything? NO ONE. I don't see Geo showing the coverage...they 'toed' the line in this case.

@ Negotiations...this thing was around for DAYS. First we heard it was Shujaat Hussain who was going to do it..then it was someone else. But consider: Doesn't it seem even more idiotic that someone would try to escape wearing a burqa?

The first time i saw the footage of women leaving the seminary, my first thought was :anyone can leave that way. Its laughable to assume that the security forces didnot think of it and Maulana (inspite of having cell phones) would not know that there is a scanner at the gates (and carry a gun to set off the alarms?!?!) and try to escape this way...ha. Next they will tell us he was trying to jump the wall. This burqa thing..i am sorry. But anyone who accepts this story the way the government puts it will have they have never been to pakistan...or be incredibly naive. It cannot be this much of a bongi. THis is stupidness par extreme. I cannot accept this bongi we are expected to believe.

P.S. EVeryone is Islamabad is 'in the know' or atleast think they are. Everyone has an inkling that there is some weird stuff going on right under our noses.

Comeon...how can you defend the presence of ammunition enough to have a standout against the Army in the middle of the capital without anyone knowing it?!?

Now, this Jamia Hafsa and Lal Masjid have been here for 40 years...although they weren't this big. How come no one had a problem with their extremism before? They were always like this...someone made this spiral out of control...I can't believe the government could not overcome them before...or even now....they can...WHy are they waiting?

Pawns on a chess board. Pawns.
And actually we are not cynical and jaded...for the most part, this nation is politically very unaware. We elected Nawaz, then Benazir, then Nawaz...even after all they did. I never heard that Richard Nixon had the nerve to stand for the President after what he did. We forgive and forget. We are an innocent, trusting nation. Nation...not you and i who don't even bother to go vote because we KNOW the election result"

Noor to shine

07-10-2007, 02:37 PM

This link is pretty biased. I have very clearly mentioned the reasoning about why this extreme situation is occurring. Would anybody bother to read my previous comments in this thread?

:salam2:
i understand all that you wrote , it is the same silly situation in most of what is so called islamic countries , all the values of Islam are being violated every day and the immoralities are being guarded by the auothorities .....our only hope is Allah swt , and i think that we (muslems) need to study the life of the prophet and learn his wisdom in dealing with all matters ....I pray that Aliah swt protect every muslem and deal with us with his mercy.

Noor to shine

07-10-2007, 02:48 PM

Globalpeace

07-10-2007, 03:20 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6288704.stm

alkathiri

07-10-2007, 04:19 PM

Is that matyrdom ?? Wallahu 3lam

MOSABJA

07-10-2007, 07:03 PM

Well it was surprising that ABDUL AZIZ the elder brother who was considered to be HARDCORE tried to escape in the BURQA.

But the other brother ABDUL RASHEED GHAZI who used to be a Liberal minded but changed after his father,s death.He was more peaceful willing to talk to MEDIA and some times even wanted to REBEL against his brother,s METHODOLOGY OF ENFORCING SHARIAH and his Warnings about SUICIDE bombings .ABDUL RASHEED never threatened with suicide bombings .He always said HE WOULD DEFEND THE MASJID.
ONLY ALLAH KNOWS WHAT's IN THE HEART.the brother who was known to be obsessed with JIHAD was trying to escape and the other one fought till very end.
These are his last wishes aired on TV.

1) the High command of Armed forces should change.They are being used for wrong purposes .The army which used to TRAIN mujahids have become is serving Americans.

2) All problems in Pakistan are due to the ABSENCE OF ISLAMIC SHARIAH.few people few families are sucking the blood of poor people .I know I be martyred so people and the MUJAHIDS keep up the struggle for the reason Pakistan came into being.

3)Allah will absolve us from the false propaganda that is being spread against us that WE HAVE LAUNCHERS,MINES e..t.c.Media has been unjust to us but we leave that on ALLAH.We have few ak 47 and that is for defending of MASJID .No ALQAEDA is in MASJID .The Mujahideen in Waziristan and else where in the world should keep fighting for cause of ALLAH.

MOSABJA

07-10-2007, 07:11 PM

More over the ULEMA of the country BLAME MUSH for the TRAGEDY .
They say that Prime minister and the elected representatives of the ruling party and ABDUL RASHEED had agreed on a DRAFT.but when that Draft was taken to the PRESIDENT house for approval it was REJECTED.and MUSH is solely responsible for TRAGEDY.

Meanwhile all eyes are on the Conference of MADRESSAH Union and Scholars Tommorow.that what stance will they take.

Mujahid commander in WAZIRISTAN have said that he would take revenge from each and ever one responsible and no one would be allowed to HARM PAKISTAN AND ISLAM.

With the Martyrdom of ABDUL RASHEED the rumors that it was DRAMA staged by Mush and GHAZI had joined hands with gov have died.

MOSABJA

07-10-2007, 07:23 PM

ISLAMABAD — Abdul Rasheed Ghazi, the slain deputy leader of the Lal Masjid (Red Mosque), was as much a rebellious son as a rebel scholar.

In his early ages he defied the will of his father Maulana Abdullah, the founder and head of the Red Mosque, to pursue a formal Islamic education.

Even when he was pressured by his father to enrolled at a madrasah, he soon ran away.

Although he memorized the Noble Qur'an at a younger age, he refrained from using the title Hafiz (someone who has memorized Qur'an).

Abdul Rasheed, who refused to grow a beard, attended public schools and got his degree from the prestigious Qaid-i A'zam University, the largest public university in Islamabad.

He obtained a master's degree in history and international relations from the same university in 1987-88.

A photo of him and his classmates still hangs on the history department's wall.

Abdul Rasheed landed a job in the Education Ministry in 1989 and was later transferred to work in the Islamabad office of the UNESCO as an educational advisor.

He was laid off after the 9/11 attacks on the US.

Different Person

The assassination of his father dramatically changed Abdul Rasheed's life.

Maulana Abdullah's circle of influence included senior government officials and politicians.

He was believed to be very close to former military ruler Gen Zia-ul-Haq.

In 1998, Maulana Abdullah was assassinated in the courtyard of the Red Mosque, which he founded in the late 1960s, by a lone gunman.

According to his will, his elder son, Maulana Abdul Aziz, replaced him as the mosque's khateeb (the person who delivers the sermon).

Abdul Aziz was always the obedient son, who quietly followed in his father's footsteps.

But the father's murder left Abdul Rashid a changed man and appears to have marked the start of his transformation.

Although he continued his job with the Ministry of Education, he started to develop an interest in the affairs of the red Mosque and the madrasah attached to it. He also grew a bushy, grey beard.

His elder brother encouraged his Islamic re-education and made him his deputy in the mosque and heir apparent.

Abdul Rasheed came into the public limelight in 2001 when Pakistan's religious parties formed an alliance against the US invasion of Afghanistan.

He became a central leader of the alliance, making passionate speeches about defending the country at daily demonstrations in Islamabad.

But the real problems between him and the Musharraf regime aggravated in 2004 over a military operation against pro-Taliban militants in Pakistan's northern tribal areas.

Like other religious leaders, Abdul Rasheed condemned the operation and used the Red Mosque to wage a campaign against it.

At the time the mosque issued a fatwa that soldiers dying in the campaign should be described as "killed" while the militants' dead were to be called "martyrs".

This enraged President Prevez Musharraf and the powerful military establishment.

Since then Abdul Rasheed has been accused of plotting to kill Musharraf and of having numerous links with militant groups.

In the recent years the Ghazi brothers became entirely committed to turning Pakistan into a Taliban-style Islamic state.

During the current crisis, bespectacled, articulate Abdul Rasheed emerged as the media face of the Red Mosque.

While his elder brother tried to sneak out, dressed as a woman, he vowed to die in his Islamabad mosque rather than surrender.

Abdul Rasheed, 43, remained inside the mosque compound and was eventually killed by troops Tuesday, July 10, during a 14-hour military assault

Globalpeace

07-10-2007, 08:28 PM

ion8ms3ILbM

All rumours of Busharraf media denied!

No independent Journalists had access to we will NEVER know!

whitecat

07-10-2007, 09:35 PM

:salam2:
Thanks for sharing this video brother.
its so painful
anyway game is over now he is gone, lets see who is next:SMILY23:
:SMILY23: :SMILY23: :SMILY23: :SMILY23:
:wasalam:

ion8ms3ILbM

All rumours of Busharraf media denied!

No independent Journalists had access to we will NEVER know!

Aapa

07-10-2007, 09:42 PM

Salaam,

I just have one thought running through my mind. How can one claim to be Muslim and shoot bullets at a masjid knowing there are Muslims in it?
I keep using the phrase that the worst are the servants of the servants of the devil. Is this what we are reduced to?
Have we lost the ability to think independently? Have we forgotten it is to Allah we return?
Can we at least try to have a day of fasting for every member of this forum. It is not much but we can dedicated the day to be in sprit with our suffering ummahath.
I call out to my sisters to join me in one day of fast. I call out to my sisters because our history tells us the first to believe was the wife of the Holy Prophet (swas). The fast may be a token, but it will be pure. It is the first step in action.

Noor to shine

07-11-2007, 04:58 AM

:salam2:
i support you in that request let us fast of Thirsday and then at iftar we try to make a sincere prayer (with a heart) for all our brothers and sisters (alive or dead).

rizzumd

07-11-2007, 05:12 AM

:salam2:
I have not hurted so much in these days as I hurted today with this event of red mosque. Masjid is supposed to be the place of worship.. instead of that it has become place of violence and bloodshed. It is very difficult to say whose mistake it is.. Allah is The best Judge. Allah s.w.t is going to punish or reward justly in this incident with everyone.
Yaa Allah, I pray you to keep every muslim on straight path.. Ameen.
Yaa Allah, I ask you to give the right knowledge of Islam to every muslim.. Ameen..
:wasalam:

virtualeye

07-11-2007, 07:18 AM

AssalaamuAlaikum,

Maulana Rasheed has achieved his goal.

Government did not allow any media, that itself tells what were the motives of government.

Secondly, an agreement was done by political leader and Muslim Madrassah representatives , but after the agreement ,there came an order from President house (Busharraf) about including some absurd demands in the agreement which were not acceptable to Maulana Rasheed Gazi. Furthermore, only half hour was given to Maulana Rasheed Gazi to decide about this. The new demands from the president house were not acceptable to him. So Government literally returned from agreement which was earlier made and started bombing and killing (which is their hobby).

I think Maulana Rasheed got his goal. This pandora box is opened now and will expand further. Lal Masjid incident was the frist step towards more such incidents and hence the revolution lastly (the extreme and bloody one).

WassalaamuAlaikum.

Globalpeace

07-11-2007, 09:34 AM

W-Salam,

It has always been my view that a Revolution will occur in Pakistan and the ground is now set for a "Clash of Civilisations" (as the Kuffar put it)....

Pandora box as you say is open and this won't be pretty or peaceful.
Blood will now flow…

Islamists will attack the Military and it will be civil war and US and/or India (or both) will move in to secure the Nukes and then we may see a new situation developing in Khuarasan as per the Ahadeeth of Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam).

I also believe that Mujahedeen in Iraq & Afghanistan have stalled US otherwise the target for attacking Saudia & splitting it into three zones was in November 2006, followed by sometimes 2007 for Pakistan

I sincerely don’t believe that even Busharraf is so stupid to have ordered this!
In the short term it secures US hegemony in Pakistan, i.e. one of the following is likely to happen:

1. Busharraf wins re-election later this year with the help of current Muslim league and secular votes
2. Busharraf enacts Martial-Law
3. Busharraf remains president with the help of PPP and Benazir becomes prime-minister
4. Some other Pro-US candidate with the help of secular elements, but there is no one around at the moment!

All are win-win scenarios for US.

This also gives Busharraf & US to further foster & fund the growth of Sufi & extreme non-violent, non-political forms of Islam as recommended in the CTC report (Feb 2006)!

I would also recommend the following analysis of the situation…

http://icssa.org/article_detail_parse.php?a_id=1137&rel=1130

Life will get a lot tougher for Muslims (whether you are a Pakistani or Not).Turn to Allah (SWT), Repent for your sins and cry for the Ummah in the last part of the Night and like Sisters are recommending FAST!

AssalaamuAlaikum,

Maulana Rasheed has achieved his goal.

Government did not allow any media, that itself tells what were the motives of government.

Secondly, an agreement was done by political leader and Muslim Madrassah representatives , but after the agreement ,there came an order from President house (Busharraf) about including some absurd demands in the agreement which were not acceptable to Maulana Rasheed Gazi. Furthermore, only half hour was given to Maulana Rasheed Gazi to decide about this. The new demands from the president house were not acceptable to him. So Government literally returned from agreement which was earlier made and started bombing and killing (which is their hobby).

I think Maulana Rasheed got his goal. This pandora box is opened now and will expand further. Lal Masjid incident was the frist step towards more such incidents and hence the revolution lastly (the extreme and bloody one).

WassalaamuAlaikum.

virtualeye

07-11-2007, 10:28 AM

AssalaamuAlaikum,

1. Busharraf wins re-election later this year with the help of current Muslim league and secular votes
2. Busharraf enacts Martial-Law
3. Busharraf remains president with the help of PPP and Benazir becomes prime-minister
4. Some other Pro-US candidate with the help of secular elements, but there is no one around at the moment!
5- Repetition of USA's Tissue paper policy, i.e., Zia-ul-Haq plane crash drama for Musharraf (ok, not plane crash but some other crash this time, so that it looks more realistic).

The situation which has been depicted in the programs of Dr. Shahid Masood, in which he has collected those Ahadith about judgement day, it is pretty predictable whats going to happen in near future.

I totally agree that the "Clash of civilizations" is not a theory by a fact. The fact which is told in Quran, and the fact, of which the consequence have been told already, specially about the time before judgment day.

WassalaamuAlaikum,
VE

chviky

07-11-2007, 10:55 AM

Abdul Rasheed Ghazi is "Shaheed" now. Under a general's force.
Today on Namaz e zuhaar i cried so much unintentionally, i feel that i am a bloody coward which can do nothing when these army bastards are gunshooting at the Mosque.

Many people call Ghazi Sb a terrorist. Analyzing all the situation. I want answers from a real scholar, Who we r? Muslims, Munafiqs or something else. Plz tell me that everyone says that Islam is very calm and moderate religion. My question is that in contrast of a so called muslim enemy (as one has clear opposite qualities in him like, Lieing, Bribes, Hate muslims, brothals, drinking etc etc.) be clear that i am not talking about other religions people here, I am talking about a number of people which have above said qualities but called as muslims like General Musharaf, If a true muslim takes a stand and to fulfill the islamic laws choose some harsh way against the so called muslims and then murdered by those muslims what we call him???. This is a very serious question plz i want a learned islamic scholar input here. I am so much depressed by the behavior of other muslims on forums.

Moreover what is a state or country w.r.t. ISLAM. Does a state or country law outscore the Islamic law in a society which have a name of (Islamic Republic But by name only) Can we shoot somebody which is against our so called state laws (Islamic State by Name only, All laws are not under Islam) and creating some effort to eliminate evils from Islamic society???

If a person could not take a harsh way like a doctor operating a patient when there is no other choice so What The Jehaad Really means in Islam. In what conditions Jihaad is possible and can we do the harsh things against so called muslims to take them back on right track???

MOSABJA

07-11-2007, 11:07 AM

I totally agree with you the stage is perhaps set for the Great War.Specially if you analyze the reaction to this Masjid.The hadith talks about Forces Of Mahdi coming from Khurassan.Pakistani part of KHURASSAN is NWFP province .Moreover as according to hadith most of the forces of Mahdi would consist of Muslim Bani israel(pakhtuns) the reaction to this event has mostly been concentrated in NWFP and most people killed in this incident were PATHANS.this would not only provoke Madressahs and Islamists but the TRIBES who have a tradition of REVENGE to wage a holy war against BUSHARRaf

.Abu Hurairah (R.A.) says that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "(Armies carrying) black flags will come from Khorasan. No power will be able to stop them and they will finally reach Eela (Baitul Maqdas) where they will erect their flags.( Ref: Saheeh Trimdi)

13 .Hadhrat Buraidah (R.A.) says that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "There will be many armies after me. You must join that army which will come from Khorasan.(Ref: Narrated by Ibn-e-Adi & Asaker & Seyuti in Jamiah Sagheer .Also in)

14. Narrated by Hazrat Abdullah bin Haris(R.A) that Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said that “People will come from the East who will make Khilafah (Islamic Rule) easy for Imam Mahdi.(Ref : Ibn-e-Majah Hadith 4088)

MOSABJA

07-11-2007, 11:09 AM

SWAT

batling the radicals holed up in Lal Masjid, Pakistan security forces are gearing up to take on another set of well entrenched extremists led by a cleric, in a tribal area, who has issued a decree asking people to attack anyone supporting the crackdown on the Islamabad mosque.

Government has decided to launch a massive operation against the banned Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat Mohammadi leader Maulana Fazalullah in the tribal Malakand agency of the North West Frontier Province, media reports said.

Fazalullah is a close associate of Lal Masjid cleric Abdul Aziz, arrested while trying to sneak out from the besieged mosque in a burqa four days ago, and his younger brother Abdul Rashid Ghazi. Fresh deployment of troops started following an announcement of war against forces by Fazalullah after the operation against Lal Masjid, the Post daily said.

Situations is alarmingly deteriorating in Swat district as most of the students of the madrassas are hailing from the region. Also, after the security operation, Fazaullah had said anyone who supported the crackdown was an 'infidel'. He called the religious leaders supporting the present government as "rebels of Islam".

BAJAUR

Around 20,000 Pakistani tribesmen vowed Monday to take revenge on President Pervez Musharraf for the siege of a radical mosque in the capital Islamabad, witnesses and officials said, cited by AFP.

"We are ready for jihad!" cried the protesters -- some of them armed with Kalashnikovs and rocket launchers -- who rallied near Khar, the main town in the troubled Bajaur tribal district bordering Afghanistan.

Local pro-Taliban commanders told the gathering that there should be a holy war in return for the standoff at the Red Mosque.

The confrontation has so far left at least 24 people dead, according to the government, but the mosque's leaders say more than 400 students have been killed.

"We beg Allah to destroy Musharraf and we will seek revenge for the atrocities committed at the Red Mosque," militant commander Maulvi Faqir Mohammed told the gathering.

Mohammed had links to a hardline madrassa, or Islamic school, that was bombed by Pakistani forces in October 2006, killing around 80 people.

The tribesmen shouted slogans including "Death to Musharraf", "Death to America" and "Those who are friends of America are traitors."

"Musharraf should immediately end his atrocity against the mosque," Mohammed added.
__________________
ALLAH RASOOL QURAN SUNNAH JIHAD JANNAH INSHAALLAH

MOSABJA

07-11-2007, 11:16 AM

SHAMELESS ARMY

Army started the operation at 4.00 A.M according to ISPR.That's exactly the time of FAJR AZAAN.Army shamelessly stormed the MASJID when people were praying Fajr.
The operation has been named SILENCE .Mush wants to silence who speaks against him.Rasullulah said

THE GREATEST JIHAD IS TO SPEAK THE TRUTH AFTER UNJUST RULER.
Army silenced the ones who spoke against MUSH.
Some personnels of army who were injured were seen in pathetic condition .One of them was lying on the stretcher and after every 5 seconds he shouted ATTACK and CODE NAMES of OPERATION.Some say MEDIA was also not allowed to enter hospital as unusual number of soldiers has this kind of DISORDER.Allah has set them as IBRAT(example for others to learn)

SHAMELESS MEDIA

Media's partiality and tilt towards secularism was clearly exposed.Before the MASSACRE Media was spreading propaganda that CHILDREN ARE FLOWERS NOT SHEILDS.After the killing of Flowers Media shamelessly kept SILENT.

Ghazi also said that he would only surrender infront of ULEMA and CAMERA so that people should come and see How much weapons do we have .How much foreigners are present????

SHAMELESS POLITICIANS

No one among the politicians was ready to condemn the attack.ABDUL RASHHED GHAZI SHAHEED said in his last talk that the political Ulema(MMA) wanted himto bow down and they played a negative role.He also said that many Ulemas bowed down to government.
THE LIE
Meanwhile the ARMY is also hiding the number of casualties .Many parents complain that government has neither handed them dead body nor were their relatives in surrender camp.It also explains why Army is taking so long to finish operation they must be disappearing dead bodies.SOURCES SAY there could be as many as 500-800 CASUALTIES.

ISLAMABAD: Dead bodies are "everywhere" inside a radical Pakistani mosque raided by troops on Tuesday, a source inside the complex said by telephone.

A man who picked up one of top mosque cleric Abdul Rashid Ghazi's mobile phones said those inside were under "massive bombing and gunfire. This is indiscriminate killing".

"There is no contact with each other because no one can leave the rooms and basements. There are dead bodies everywere," the witness added, declining to give his name as explosions and gunfire echoed in the background.

One of those killed was Ghazi's elderly mother, who died of suffocation from smoke caused by blasts

ya allah madad

07-11-2007, 11:40 AM

:salam2:
allhamdullilah i am pakhtunand Islam runs in our blood.i ve been crying since the first day of this bloody operation against Islam,but busharaf must stop now cos he has got 2 f16s from USA as a bait.
and brother ,security forces will need another security force for their security cos most of the students were pakhtun.they are very much revengeful now.
Mufti Rafi Usmani has given the fatwa that all those victims of LAL MOSQUE are SHAHEED(rafi usmani is the mufti azam of Pakistan)

MOSABJA

07-11-2007, 11:40 AM

some muslims say Ghazi was a TERRORIST.Most of these Muslims are Pakistani immigrants living in Europe.They will not like it because this event has further brought Pakistani community in the heat of Racist remarks.Secondly the Muslims in Europe have no idea of situation in pakistan.They have rule of law.

Where as in Pakistan if you speak against government you are ABDUCTED.600 people are missing.Chief Justice of country is suspended only for hearing the cases of missing persons.

there is no democracy .One ruler amends HUDDODULLAH and keeps laughing.the Ulema who are against cleric are silent about amendments in Hududullah.In his WOMEN PROTECTION BILL the RAPISTS no longer gets punishment of stoning or Lashing.

The government shouting for WRIT and RULE OF LAW shamelessly neglects the KILLINGS OF KARACHI .
In this situation Ghazi has neither

KILLED ANYBODY.
NEITHER REBELLED AGAINST GOVERNMENT.
He only ordered his students to close a BROTHEL that too after APPEALING 100 times to the POLICE.Is speaking against infidel government is terrorism

Rasulullah said GREATEST JIHAD IS S.PEAKING THE TRUTH AGAINST UNJUST RULER

ya allah madad

07-11-2007, 11:45 AM

it is reported in newspaperts that Edhi trust has dispatch more than 800 coffin sheets and 300 sheets to gather the remanings of the the shuhadah

chviky

07-11-2007, 11:48 AM

An army general phoned Mulana Abdul Aziz to come out for a secrete talk and he also phoned the Pathetic army people that Mulana Abdul Aziz is sneaking out in a burqa do arrest him and later on they insulted Burqa and Mulana in the way that even Kufaar's could not do that. that Islam is a very peaceful religion and Ghazi Who is on the right path As Above to all these happenings many of us thinks that we r the ture muslims indeed and that the man Ghazi is a terrorist. Are we heading towards a society in which an ordinary Namazi would be soon declared as a terrorist also Because our next generation is so much roshan khyal that, they will go straight to these brothels, See *!*!*! movies, Drinks beer, Do lied politics and then says that we are the moderate and true muslims.

I want to know what is the right path, Unfortunately Quran- e- majeed is talking against the thinking of many around us. And by the way in such a Harsh manner that one heart could start bowling (As many of us defends that its a religion of peace (Thund Program).

virtualeye

07-11-2007, 12:11 PM

virtualeye

07-11-2007, 12:13 PM

:salam2:

Mufti Rafi Usmani has given the fatwa that all those victims of LAL MOSQUE are SHAHEED(rafi usmani is the mufti azam of Pakistan)

>>Mufti Rafi Usmani has given the fatwa that all those victims of LAL MOSQUE are SHAHEED(rafi usmani is the mufti azam of Pakistan)

Reference please, I need reference.

Globalpeace

07-11-2007, 12:16 PM

W-Salam,

Excellent article and worth everyone reading!

AssalaamuAlaikum,

If you know Urdu then please read the first colmn on the following page:
http://nawaiwaqt.com.pk/urdu/daily/july-2007/06/idarati1.php#1
(The column by Sikandar khan baloch)

Wassalaam

ya allah madad

07-11-2007, 12:26 PM

his news conference on geo tv

Globalpeace

07-11-2007, 01:35 PM

Asslamo Allaikum,

....Mufti Raheem Usmani, a renowned religious scholar and a member of the delegation that held talks with Maulana Abdul Rashid, has declared that all those Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa militants who lost their lives while harbouring the belief that they were engaged in jihad are shaheeds [martyrs]....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6290594.stm

Look half-way down the page in the section entitled, "The Post"

alkathiri

07-11-2007, 01:40 PM

virtualeye

07-11-2007, 03:19 PM

UM ABDULLAH

07-11-2007, 07:35 PM

Wa alaykum Salam,

Both the Government forces AND the Students are Wrong.

There are clerics using innocent students and misguiding them into doing wrong things. Such as street fighting and violent demonstrations, vigilantiism and whipping people up into emotional frenzy.

Many of their demands are correct - They want to stop the prostitution, drugs taking, alcohol etc.

But, nobody should be taking up arms! and Muslim fighting Muslim is wrong and a very big shame for any Muslims to resort to. People must do things in the right way, instead of getting so heated.

There also may be a case of agent provocateurs in the demonstrations

how can u b so sure that the clerics were using students and misguiding them into doing wrong things ? . demanding an islamic law is "wrong doing" to u?, and do u think if u give the idea in a plate to govt they will quickly say "yes, why not let's have islamic law from tomorrow" , a govt which so corrupt' needs martyrs like abdul rasheed ghazi' to set an example for others: to stick ur cause no matter wat? do u know that the women who were rescued from mosque said they wanted to go back and b martyred ,they dont want to go home , and the media was blaming ghazi that he is holding them on gun point!!!!!!!!1 what a shame!!!!!!!! the whole media is pack of lies , its a shame now that ppl r spiiting on ground as soon as they see pak army , they hate their own army too much ,whose fault is it? .. who killed innocent ppl? just 2 days before operation 3 chinese men were killed , who went to capture their killers? , still no one like before, , ,,
every eye in pakistan and islamic world has tears in their eyes , only a few coward who are scared of govt and dajjal "u.s.a" are taking musharraf's side , who is presented 2 new F-16 as a reward for killing his bothers .. its time for all sleeping molanas to wake up , and who did it ????? molana adbul rashid ghazi shaheed. may Allah guide us to speak the truth .

chviky

07-12-2007, 03:33 AM

I am reading Surah Baqra (Dr Israar Explanations). ALLAH says in this surah about previous muslim ummah (Bani-Israeil) Commulative evils.

And Muhammad (SAW) said that a time comes when my ummah will become a complete carbon copy of bani-Israheil in evils and also thinks that they are on the right path and Hell fire would not touch them because they are muslims.

according to this surah Most victims (are/will be) the religious scholars who hide the HAQ for their own benefits or fear. (The surah says that ALLAH will make their Heart like Stones).

My question is that what could one do against these so called muslims (Because Kafir is an open enemy but these evil people in society are hidden before the Tag of Muslims)

chviky

07-12-2007, 03:57 AM

:salam2:
Brothers i am very depressed my blood is on fire when i see these bastards (Army people and Busharaf + Politicians to them Busharaf is God Nawazbillah), on TV chanting about Shaheed Ghazi sb.

And by reading the very First Surah in Quran -e- Majeed my depression climbs to its peak. Gahzi Sb got shahadaat that is for him only i couldn't ever reach to his feet. But what about us brothers should we let forget the incident and find commodities in Islam to satisfy own own interests (Betraying ALLAH).

b4blue

07-12-2007, 04:17 AM

this is all drama by musharraf just to make happy usa

MOSABJA

07-12-2007, 07:49 AM

The actual n.o of CASUALTIES may be as large as 700-900 .When they buried 50 people in CLOSED COFFINS in ISLAMABAD. Some Media men asked them to open the coffin.BUT THE REALITY WAS THERE WERE MORE THAN ONE DEAD BODY IN ONE COFFIN.

THe gov also took so much time for operation even after the Martyrdom of ABDUL RASHEED GHAZI which shows that they were disappearing bodies.

Many people say they have neither found their relatives in SURRENDER CAMP nor in JAILS nor in Hospitals and nor in the LIST OF DEAD PERSONS.Dead bodies of those have been disappeared.

More over the people who have their SISTERS,DAUGHTERS are specially WORRIED as there could be MISTREATED or RAPED.

Most dangerous thing is that if any women belonging to TRIBAL AREAS is Mistreated there would be a revolt in tribes and Pukhtoons .

MOSABJA

07-12-2007, 07:53 AM

his father MAULANA ABDULLAH(martyred by gun fire inside Masjid in 1998)
his mother LAL BIBI(Martyred during operation of Security forces.Abdul Rasheed Ghazi also told on a news channel before martyrdom his mother was injured and he told her to recite KALIMA)
his brother MAULANA ABDUL AZIZ(could be given death sentence)
his sons and daughter all of them are under aged MUHAMMAD HARUN(martyred) other sons WARIS GHAZI,HAMZA are missing DAUGHTER AISHA whom he loved most is also Missing( might be martyred)
HASSAAN under aged Son of ABDUL AZIZ is also Missing (most probably martyred)
Two daughters and WIFE of MAULANA ABDUL AZIZ are in jail

IT SEEMS SIMILAR TO KARBALA. SUCH PERSECUTION FOR DEMANDING SHARIAH??????

Abuanis

07-12-2007, 08:54 AM

Assalamualaikum W.W. Brothers & Sisters
Really very sad to hear this extreme situation. The most important thing is that Muslims are fighting with Muslims while, at the same time, trying to be very friendly with Kafir specially Yahudee & Nusronee.
My question in order to realize is that do we accept the same faith that Allah is the only god for all muslim and Islam is Allah's religion(Neither their belonged races nor any other things). I'm sure that if all muslim has only Allah in their heart such fighting among muslim brother will never happen.(InshaAllah)

Smee

07-12-2007, 10:42 AM

MOSABJA

07-13-2007, 06:51 AM

I live in Pakistan .Every one knows it.I heard it from a news paper that JOURNALISTS were not allowed to see how much dead bodies are inside the coffins.More over SENATOR SHAH ABDUL AZIZ said that after the SURRENDER of 1500 students .The number of students in the Masjid till the last moment could be MAXIMUM1200 and MINIMUM 500.

The media also reported that they have seen BUSES with TINTED GLASSES went to Lal Masjid and went some where .Those buses must have been used for transporting dead bodies.

Many relatives of students say that if there children are ALIVE then government show where they are and if they are DEAD gov show the dead body.But gov has disappeared them.

There are other eye witness reports fore.g DAWN news paper that dead bodies were every where in the COMPLEX.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Pakistan/Dead_bodies_everywhere_inside_Lal_Masjid_Witness/articleshow/2190846.cms

The truth will be unveiled after a bit of time .SUPREME COURT LAWYERS BAR ASSOCIATION have set up an investigating team to search for the n.o of Casualties.

MOSABJA

07-13-2007, 06:57 AM

I read in a news paper that the people of ROJHAN MAZARI(where Abdul Rasheed GHazi) was buried claimed that after his burial the FRAGRANCE spread in the place ???

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?183826

Is he SMILING ??

alkathiri

07-13-2007, 07:27 AM

I read in a news paper that the people of ROJHAN MAZARI(where Abdul Rasheed GHazi) was buried claimed that after his burial the FRAGRANCE spread in the place ???

Well if that is true, Allahu akhbar. Thats great news !!!!

newusman

07-15-2007, 11:27 AM

:SMILY23: :SMILY23: :SMILY23:
Those who can understand urdu should read the following article,

http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/jul2007-daily/13-07-2007/col3.htm

whitecat

07-15-2007, 09:19 PM

:salam2:
i have same question,
its look like that angle of death is telling him a joke
:wasalam:

I read in a news paper that the people of ROJHAN MAZARI(where Abdul Rasheed GHazi) was buried claimed that after his burial the FRAGRANCE spread in the place ???

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?183826

Is he SMILING ??

mibelt

07-15-2007, 09:40 PM

We have right to advocate for Shariah Law, but you have no right to take the law and authority into your own hands. You cannot put at risk the life of innocent women and children in the name Islam and the Shariah Law. If Prophet Mohammed(s) had done that in Mecca, there wouldn't have been Islam. That Imam was wrong, and would answer for the death of all who died in the siege of the mosque. This is pure ignorance on the side of that so called Iman. May Allah be Exalted.

whitecat

07-15-2007, 09:52 PM

i m somewhat agree with u brother or sister.imam was 50% wrong but wt gov"t did is 110% worng. there were other ways to solve the issue but gov't did it to make bush happy and get more support from him.

We have right to advocate for Shariah Law, but you have no right to take the law and authority into your own hands. You cannot put at risk the life of innocent women and children in the name Islam and the Shariah Law. If Prophet Mohammed(s) had done that in Mecca, there wouldn't have been Islam. That Imam was wrong, and would answer for the death of all who died in the siege of the mosque. This is pure ignorance on the side of that so called Iman. May Allah be Exalted.

Come2Quran

07-16-2007, 12:28 AM

Where is Quran it says that kidnapping or killing, for your rights (weather they are right or you think they are right) is okay?
Those student were wrong.

Aapa

07-16-2007, 02:18 AM

Salaam,

We can not second guess. Even if the students were wrong..it is the job of the governement to protect its citizens. You rule by compassion and not oppression to please the oppressors who happen to be your lords..who in reality are the servants of the devil.
I know you are not telling me it is right to kill young women armed with sticks. You are not telling me it is right to slaughter young women who are not even adults. In essence, am I not correct in stating that young Muslim virgins were slaughtered.

MOSABJA

07-16-2007, 07:27 PM

It's a debatable issue that was closing brothels against Islam.Because that did'nt give pumishment .They only closed a brothel that too after COMPLAINING 100 times to police.Rasulullah said STOP THE MUNKIRAAT BY HANDThose who say their methodology was wrong must know what situation is pakistan like.Gov kidnaps anyone who speaks against them.There is no law and order.Chief justice is seeking for justice.They only closed brothel .It's Pakistan not Europe .Brothels are running openly for the first time in BUSHARRAF REGIME.What if you see a person on the street assaulting a women .
would you give him a lecture?

OR

you would say hey man leave her .if he doesnt you stop him forcefully?

whether they were right or wrong the gov instead of closing brothels killed over 500 students.Even by the law of pakistan kidnappers are not given death penalty.

i think the scholars who say that their methodology was wrong should think that by their methodology there has been no SHARIAH for 60 years.By GHAZI's methodology at least now there is a demand for SHARIAH,

Come2Quran

07-16-2007, 11:26 PM

Salaam Brother Mosabja
I am not against Shariah, but you just said stop them forcefully. but you're looking at Paki Gov doing the forcing not the students.
Were those students not given warnings and options?
They flatout denied every single option.
any Gov on the other hand does not bring islam when they are to do anything that maynot be legal. But in the name of islam if someone is to do nagitive things and then call yourself as an islamic soldier and that what was done is based on islam, In other words holding islam responsible for every cruel thing you do and Islam gets the blame. then its very sad. i'm sad. Its shameful.
I am not saying that the gov was right. But i never expected anything good or bad from them. But Islamic students.
Thank you for understanding

Aapa

07-17-2007, 12:24 AM

Salaam,

The bottom line is you do not take Muslim lives. The powers i.e government had control. They chose to take the cowards way out. There is always room to avoid killing virgin Muslims. Is a F-16 worth a Muslim life?

chviky

07-17-2007, 07:54 AM

He is smiling definitely, look at his alive smile in other videos before his shahadat.
And Of course rewarded on spot, what Roshan Kyal people like us, couldn't even dream about. May Allah give us this level of Imaan also.

Aapa

07-17-2007, 08:44 AM

Salaam,

I am a mother..and sometimes I just wonder..

Globalpeace

07-17-2007, 09:47 AM

Asslamo Allaikum,

I have been busy translating, collecting info & here is some stuff which has appeared in Urdu media & I think Brothers/Sisters should read....

Even the Shcolars of Pakistan DISAGREE with the methodology but hundreds of orphan girls (between 8-15) have been SHOT DEAD and some of the Brothers/Sisters should show a little compassion!

How the Negotiations were thwarted by the Government

This is the report of Maulana Zahidur-Rashdi who was involved in the negotiations along with Mufti Rafi Usmani and this report is worth considering by anyone who bears ill-feelings towards the Shuhuda of Lal-Masjid....unless you are so biased and beyond reason that nothing can persuade you!

It is from this morning’s (12JULY2007)’s Daily Islam newspaper…

http://dailyislam.com.pk/

For those who don’t understand Urdu, the summary is as follows:

For those who can understand Urdu, please read attachement in FULL!

A group of Scholars from Wifaqul-Madaris (organisation which overseas Madrasas in Pakistan) consisting of Maulana Zahidur-Rashdi (Author), Mufti Rafi Usmani, Maulana Dr. Abdur-Razaq Sikander, Maulana Qari Hanif Jalandhari, Maulana Adil Khan, Maulana Hakeem Muhammad Mazhar Khan, Maulana Mufti Muhammad, Maulana Qadhi Abdur-Rasheed and Maulana Saleemu-ullah Khan (Ameer of the group) met with the Prime-minister Shaukat Aziz, Chawdry Shujat Hussain, and Aijazul-Haq (minister for religious affairs), Muhammad Ali Durrani (minister), Tariq Azeem (minister), and commander Khaleel Ahmed (Pakistan Army) at the prime Minster’s house on the 9th of July at 14:00. The prime-minister personally appreciated and thanked the group of Ulama for assisting the government and elaborated on the government’s efforts & tactics.
The conditions of Maulana Ghazi Abdur-Rasheed Shaheed (RA) which were discussed with Mufti Taqi Usmani & Mufti Rafi Usmani were presented to the government officials and it was decided that direct communication with Maulana Ghazi Abdur-Rasheed Shaheed (RA) (on the phone) should be restored in order to avoid further blood-shed and in principles all three conditions of Maulana Ghazi Abdur-Rasheed Shaheed (RA) were accepted but it was decided to talk to him about their implementation. His three conditions were:

1. He shouldn’t be arrested or placed under house-arrest, rather he should be allowed to move to his native village along with his belongings and his entire extended family
2. All of his companions and everyone else held up in Lal Masjid & Jamia Hafasa who are not wanted in any legal cases previously should be allowed to walk away however Maulana Ghazi Abdur-Rasheed Shaheed (RA) had no objections to people being tried for cases prior to the Lal Masjid/Jamia Hafsa affair
3. Lal Masjid should be given over by Awqaaf (Ministry of Religious Affairs) and run with the consultation of Wifaqul Madaris and Jamia Hafsa & Jamia Fareedia should be brought under the control of Wifaqul Madaris
It was communicated to the government that Maulana Ghazi Abdur-Rasheed Shaheed (RA) was unwilling to surrender and/or compromise if these three conditions were not met!

As previously stated that all three of these conditions were agreed in principle and it was decided that relevant ministers of Pakistan government and Ulama of Wifaqul Madaris will work together on finer details.

We had a cordial meeting with the prime-minister and we were under the impression that the matter is now resolved! It was also decided that we would visit Lal Masjid in the evening (Ministers and group of Ulama), however we were STOPPED at a check-point and REFUSED to proceed further. Security personnel stated that there are Terrorists holed up in the Mosque so we cannot allow the group to proceed (on grounds of safety); we had already informed Maulana Ghazi Abdur-Rasheed Shaheed (RA) of our arrival and he was ready to welcome us.

We had no choice but to go to a nearby house and start discussions with informed Maulana Ghazi Abdur-Rasheed Shaheed (RA) on the phone. On informed Maulana Ghazi Abdur-Rasheed Shaheed (RA)’s request Maulana Fazlur-Rahman Khalili was also invited to the negotiations.

By mid-night we had agreed to the three points (very similar to the previous ones so I won’t bother translating) & the salient points of the agreement were noted by Tariq Azeem Khan (Minister of State for Information and Broadcasting) and fully expounded in writing by me (Maulana Zahidur-Rashdi). We discussed the final draft with Maulana Ghazi Abdur-Rasheed Shaheed (RA) on the phone and he agreed with it.

Chawdry Shujat Hussain then iterated that this agreement must be taken to the president for final approval and he proceeded to the presidency with the ministers. Two hours later the agreement that was brought back was completely deferent in the following respects:

1. There was no mention of arresting or placing Maulana Ghazi Abdur-Rasheed Shaheed (RA) under house-arrest…No discussion of this matter was in the new agreement
2. The discussions about not arresting and trying personnel was skipped!
3. Handing control of Jamia Hafsa & Jamia Fareedia to Wifaqul Madaris was also skipped!

We were told that the new agreement is non-negotiable and a response (Yes or No) is required within 30 minutes.

This new agreement was obviously rejected by Maulana Ghazi Abdur-Rasheed Shaheed (RA) on the phone as his 3 conditions were not met.

I (Maulana Zahidur-Rashdi) personally spoke to Maulana Ghazi Abdur-Rasheed Shaheed (RA) on the phone at around 02:15 (10th of July) and he reiterated his previous position….At this point the group of Ulama left the government ministers and stated that since the agreement reached (between the Prime Minister, Federal Ministers, Maulana Ghazi Abdur-Rasheed Shaheed (RA) & Ulama) has been altered significantly, we are unable to proceed with the negotiations and we take no responsibility for the breakdown.

Extent of Casualties:

Lal Masjid: What really happened???

By: ABID ULLAH JAN

1. That there are over 1000 casualties of students, mostly women and children and the government have removed the bodies for secret burials.

2. There were no weapons in the complex and the governments have planted them after the operation.

3. There were no terrorists or foreign fighters inside the complex and the government is only using this excuse to build its cases.

4. The operation has been carried out on the orders of US by General Musharraf to please West to seek a re-election for next five years.

As far the number of casualties are concerned, it is not just the clerics who are kicking dust that 1000 casualties have taken place within students of the seminary, there are editorial and analysis by credible and neutral journalists who have come to the conclusion after putting all available statistics side by side that at least 902 and at the most 1956 people have been killed.

Among the victims were orphans , people from as far as Azad Kashmir and other remote areas. These include families with little of no resources to afford to come to Islamabad, get together in one place and campaign for their dead ones in these circumstances.

An announcement to come and recognize your loved ones in the dead bodies at cold storage would have brought many to the front to show the estimate of missing people. May be that’s why the government was in a hurry and started digging and burying during the night. The laborers working on the graves have told BBC two and more bodies in one coffin. [8] And logically, more than 100 mass graves for 102 victims (as per the military regimes claim) just do not make any sense.

Dawn editorial on July 11 states:

“EIGHTY per cent of the operation,” to quote an army spokesman, had been completed to expel the terrorists from the Lal Masjid when these lines were written, and Abdul Rashid Ghazi had been killed, though resistance from hard-core militants was still going on, with the death toll in the vicinity of 150. “

Note the figures of 150 dead by the time when 80 % operation was completed. And come back to the government’s figure of just 50 after 100% operation that was regurgitated by all the national and international media for a long time after completion of the bloody drama.

For the sake of discussion, even if we take the official figures of casualty as true, aren’t more than 100, including women and children, a significant number?

3 days later in the heat of Islamabad & the body is still fresh and fragrant!

aJs_hgnmc_0

Testimony of surviving Girl students:

She is saying that they were FORCED to walk on pages of Qur'aan and Saheeh Bukhari and ASKED to take their Niqaab OFF when they surrendered!

They refused & said, Shoot but we won't take our Niqaabs off....

She said that as long as we are alive we wll fight against Busharaf and its either US or HIM!

cG259ODAETs

This is a hart-breaking account of a 8 year old girl and her 15 year old Sister (SHOT DEAD!)....
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/jul2007-daily/13-07-2007/col3.htm

Rough translation below....

It talks about 2 little girls in the Madrasa that Dr. Shahid Masood met. He used to visit the madrasa and talk to the leaders of the Masjid and was also given the oppurtunity to talk to the talibaat. Thats the place where he met these girls. Umm Hassaan just said they were nagging to meet you although they dont talk to strange men. One was a 8/10 years old girl called Asma with her elder sis Aisha [names were changed in the article]. He had some innocent talks with the girls and the article mentions how they were asking questions to them and annoying him to get his phone number and also asked for an autograph.

Abdul Rasheed Ghazi standing next to him just said they were annoying you but still he gave his phone number.

This was before the attack. After the attack he wondered about what happened to those innocent girls and wished he could contact them. Eventually the girls messaged him and had several conversations on the phone.

In the end this little girl Asma sent a message from the madrassa to call back which Dr. Masood did. He heard the little girl crying with lots of noises in the background. Saying her elder sis died and the phone call got disconnected then.

And now the questions that Dr. Shahid Masood is posing is: Who where they? And where did they go?

Thats the gist of it.

Dr Shahid Mas'ud wrote that he told the girls a number of times to leave the complex because the army was going to attack and they laffed it off saying that "why would the army attack us? we're not criminals." They mentioned the army are kattar musulmaan which means hardcore/strong muslims and why would their own army attack at them. That shows the innocence of these girls.

Then it says that on the final day - Dr recieved an SMS asking him to fone. He foned and could hear firing and women wailing and crying (ALLAH knows what was happening) and he could hear the younger sister crying that her bhaaji (sister) is dead and then the line gets cut.

Seroiusly our du'a is that ALLAH Ta'ala increase the imaan of these ladies to the levels of Bibi Asiyah radhiyallahu anha, that ALLAH Ta'ala grant them pious chaste husbands and that Rahman Ta'ala make them shining stars for all ages. ameen

A goob blog summarising everything!

http://brnaeem.blogspot.com/2007/07/lal-masjid-postmortem.html

I have taken most of the articles from Secular sources so there is no chance of it being biased!

Aapa

07-17-2007, 10:03 AM

Salaam,

My respected and faithful brother thank you for helping us see the truth. I am dismayed at the reaction of Muslims about this incident. Maybe it is only ''just another incident " as the world continues to turn its back on Muslims. The innocents are with Allah and we are left to take action.

Smee

07-17-2007, 11:25 AM

jakallahu Khairun brother GP.

sammuslimah

07-17-2007, 11:37 AM

it just dont make sense to me at all why they would kill innocent muslim people its sick and it brings tear to my eyes to see that may Allah grant them heaven ameeeeen inshallah
:astag:

newusman

07-17-2007, 02:03 PM

http://gulfnews.com/world/Pakistan/10139865.html

Pakistan
Students say 1,000 orphans were inside Jamia Hafsa during assault

By Wajid Ali Wajid, Correspondent
Published: July 17, 2007, 00:18

Islamabad: Female students of the controversial seminary Jamia Hafsa, who surrendered to security forces, have disclosed that nearly 1,000 orphaned female students were in the building during the attack and their fate was still unknown.

Talking to media at a rehabilitation centre, Humaira, Azra and Noreen said after the devastating earthquake in Kashmir and Northwest Frontier Province on October 8, 2005, hundreds of orphaned female students were brought to the seminary.

"After the earthquake, about 1,000 orphaned female students were admitted to Jamia Hafsa. Jamia bore all the costs of their residence and education," said Noreen, 23, from Kashmir.

"It is still not clear what happened to those students and where they had gone because they had no place to go," said Humaira, 24, from the North West Frontier Province.

"We surrendered after the launch of the operation and at that time more than 1,000 female students were in the Jamia Hafsa. After our surrender, very few female students came out of the building," they said.

Figure

The female students said "we fail to understand and can't digest the government figure of casualties as there were lots of people in the compound after the launch of the military operation."

They were saddened by the state of affairs and said that although something had gone wrong with the administration, no one had expected such a tragic fate for so many innocent people.

"The government should have exercised more patience and dialogue and should have allowed more chance to solve this crisis amicably," they said.

The government has released photographs of 10 more foreign militants who died during the military's "Operation Silence" against the Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa.

"We have identified 10 more bodies of foreigners who died fighting security forces. We are not sure about their nationality, but their faces clearly show they are foreigners," Interior Ministry spokesman Brigadier Javed Iqbal Cheema told a press conference in Islamabad.

MOSABJA

07-18-2007, 08:23 AM

The appearance looks like that of foreigners .Most of the Pathans have fair complexion and look like foreigners .Two of the persons identified by army as foreigners are Pakistanis .One of them belongs to ATTOCK.
The other one belongs to KAHUTA.

Now the other 8 persons also belong to Pakistan their identity will Inshallah be revealed.

Kayote

07-19-2007, 09:33 PM

Salam,

If I heard and read right that Abdul Rasheed Ghazi did not let the women and children out and refused to let the boys out until his own safety was assured, I cannot find any sympathy for him. Ofcourse, media being media, I am not sure I can trust ptv or geo news.

Salam

P.S: I posted this in the wrong thread, hence the copy and paste here.

whitecat

07-19-2007, 10:55 PM

:salam2:
brother the matter u talking abt not true, every one who was in the masjid was not by pushed by abdul rasheed, they were inside willingly. every women who came out from masjid said they were inside willingly, no one bush them to stay inside.
Gov't still can't find anyone who could tell them that they were inside unwillingly, axcept a 14 years boy, whom they don't let talk to anyone axcept ptv.( thats y i m not sure if that was ture 2)
any way Allah knows wt was attention of abdul rsheed Ghazi and Bushraf,they will be judge by that.
u r still under the prapoganda try to find the truth
May Allah have his mercy on us
:wasalam:

Salam,

If I heard and read right that Abdul Rasheed Ghazi did not let the women and children out and refused to let the boys out until his own safety was assured, I cannot find any sympathy for him. Ofcourse, media being media, I am not sure I can trust ptv or geo news.

Salam

P.S: I posted this in the wrong thread, hence the copy and paste here.

newusman

07-23-2007, 11:30 AM

Lal Masjid Massacre

You have seen us on the news
Heard many stories
Mostly negative
Don't blame you if you hate us
But now its time to hear our views

You have seen men with beards and turbans
Women with faces covered and sticks in one hand
Children shouting militant slogans
We don't blame you if you are scared

Who are we?
Are we mad, raving lunatics?
Intent of destruction and mayhem
Or are we human and Muslim just like you?

You have seen the house of Allah surrounded
Helicopters and armed soldiers
Used to attack us in our place of worship and home
You have seen bodies flooding out
Most believed the official version
But some sincere Muslims have doubts
Questions and criticisms

Do we not deserve justice and a fair hearing?
Or is it ok for us to be butchered like animals at Qurbani?
Over hundred plus dead and even more wounded
Mass graves and cover ups
Some witnesses say 1500 martyred
what was our crime and who convicted us in what court?

If you're willing to listen and think for yourself
Then here is our story

We are Muslims
Just like you
Believe in Allah and his book and Prophet
We accept all the verses and hadith
Regardless of the change in time and place
Islam is not only in our hearts
But in our actions too

We saw the evil all around just like you do
We felt angry and sad like everyone else
Pakistan established in the name of Islam
But where is Islam in society we asked?

Musharaff came
some people applauded
Need for change from the Bhuttos and the Nawaz Sharifs
what has he delivered?
A partner in America's war against Islam
Thousands of Muslims dead
And open vice and evil everywhere

Brothels even next to masjids
Corruption so open
Modernisation and progress some say
It's the price we pay
For being Secular

Islam inside people's hearts
While the decadent values tear our nation apart
Polarisation
Islamists and Secularists
With millions in the middle

So we took a stand
Against those who do evil
Used our hands
To change the condition of the people
We expected the Government to attack us
But we expected better from our brothers and sisters

Do you not wish to live in a better society?
Free from corruption and evil
Based upon the Prophets Sunnah
Where your daughters can walk without being molested
Your sons can get jobs without paying bribes
And the nation's wealth will be utilised for the ummah

So we suffered the consequences of our sincerity to Allah
We have no regrets
After all death is decreed by the creator
We leave this world working for Allah's deen
You and us will meet again soon
Where the only currency will be good deeds
So take advantage of the time you have left
And read the Quran and Sunnah with an open mind
And act upon its commands
InshAllah

"I don’t expect justice from this government. This is the government of liars and hypocrites. I have lodged my case in the court of Allah, and now He will do the justice." - Father of the shaheed children

Globalpeace

07-23-2007, 01:30 PM

Asslamo Allaikum,

Cracking analysis on Geo TV....

Eye-witness accounts of the Massacare & Student testimonies for those who "still think" that these were extremists!

zP62BoWQcCs
BMFDYELVPqw
_pMtUB2CR7g
JNzVcX_MW6w
Od-fJj8akEc

Globalpeace

07-26-2007, 02:11 PM

Asslamo Allaikum,

Evidence and eye-witness accounts as follows!

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=561C6FC201B6BE0E

http://www.deeneislam.com/ur/main.php?CID=104